On Thu, Jul 18, 2002 at 08:42:08AM +0800, Andrew Bailey <andrew at networkharmoni.com.au> wrote: > Is that the cue for my anti-kelly rant? I suppose it'll do... > Of all the characters in the books Kelly is the one most in need of a > good slapping. He's not the only candidate, to be sure... > Why? Well he is a well read, highly intelligent individual who > understands social systems quite well, but for some reason is completely > unable to see why his marxist revolution is doomed to failure. He's a well-read, highly-intelligent ideologue. This attitude tends to breed an inability to consider the flaws in your own ideas, while exacerbating the flaws in others. I think perhaps Kelly understands this -- he knows that he needs the support of the people in the country, not just the city. And the people in the country are still existing in a completely agricultural economic model. They produce surplus, to be sure, but if they stop producing, they starve. As such, initially his goals were limited. Clean up the section of town he was living in, basically, and acquire enough of a voice in the Empire to improve the conditions of his people in small ways. But when the "System" (ie, the Jhereg) took offense at this, his political philosophy forced him to escalate. Note that his demands didn't change -- investigate the killings, not "let us rule the empire". But given that he felt the "system" was opposing him, he had to fight the system, not the individuals. He is, at least, consistent in his blindness. > Doomed? Yes. Basically for two reasons, they are out resourced, and, > more importantly, the do not have a stanglehold on providing the means > of production. Indeed. > If it came down to a revolt, I really don't think that Kelly's gang > stand a chance. Fundamentally thay lack the magical resources to > seriously challenge the current hierarchy. Yes they "Held" south > adhrilanka. But when they come up against a Dragon Army, with Sethra, > Morrolan , Aliera and a cohort of Athyra battle wizards how long do you > give them? 30 seconds or so. > Whe have seen in Dragon how nessacary it is to have your own > wizards to defend, lest you get slaughtered. And Morralan, Aleria et al > are going to be Untouchable by your average Tekla, unless someone takes > down there protective spell. It will be like Infrantry armed with swords > taking on tanks. Little different from the armored nobility in the medieval period -- except spells are used instead of clumsy, weighty armor. > On the meta-physical side of things. In order to achieve Kellys stated > goal of taking down the cycle he will have to, IMHO, attack on both the > mudane and meta-physical levels. ( I belive that he may have to send > people through the paths of the dead to physically destroy the cycle > there, though this is just conjecture ). Anyway the gods are clearly > against him, well at least some of them. I am not sure if this would be necessary or not, but I would be very interested in seeing the consequences of success. How does the cycle keep the rule of the Empire in check? Is it merely a function of which house can control the Orb? (If everyone ignored the person with the Orb, instead of treating them as the Emperor, what happens?) > This is something that I have often considered. How powerful is the orb. > We know that every citizen of Dragaera has a link to the Orb, Vlad uses > it to tell the time, and it is also the source of power for sorcery. > But the question is if every citizen can access the Ord, can that link > operate in reverse, and what exactly can it do? How could that link be > used by the establishment to defeat the revolution. Of course they could > sever there links to the Orb, but that puts them at a severe > disadvantage magically. Clearly the link can operate in reverse -- consider the ability of every citizen to petition the Empress directly, and the consequences of doing so over a trivial matter. However, this is a red herring -- 90% of Kelly's forces would not have such a link or would be unable to derive significant benefits from it, as far as I can tell. Vlad has a link because he is Jhereg nobility; it does not appear to be the default for Easterners. And few Teckla are capable of more than mundane sorcery. We have seen elsewhere that the Orb is a Great Weapon, or of a power level on a similar scale. What's interesting is that we don't know what that means exactly. We know some of the properties of a Great Weapon, but not much about their powers other than being tied to their wielders, able to kill Gods, and drinking the souls of their victims. (I wonder if the Orb could drink the soul of any citizen of the Empire?) > All I can see happening is Kelly accellerating the Teklas displacement > from they traditional occupations in the empire and getting a lot of > people dead, unless he creates an alliance with some other, better > resourced, external power. The Eastern Kingdoms, maybe, but I can't see > Feudal lords being all too keen on Kelly's republic either, after all it > might give their subjects ideas. The Jenoine? He wouldn't, would he? I suspect he might, if given the chance, mainly because he would be too focused on opposing the Empire to carefully consider his allies. -- Matthew Hunter (matthew at infodancer.org)