Penney, Sean writes:
>Joshua Kroenngold writes:
>>Which doesn't, of course, answer the question of what weapon Vlad is
>>using, in modern rather than his own parlance. :)
>It seems to me that when Vlad claims to use Eastern style fencing, wielding
>a rapier, as opposed to the Dragaerean "hack hack slash" type, he's trying
>to say that eastern fencing is more evolved and refined then dragaerean
>sword-play.
Which doesn't make much sense, unless Dragaerans, as a whole, are
dumb, which they don't seem to be.
What they are is very strong, and tall, and have different ideas of
fashion than Vlad does...which would lead to a different set of
weapons being preferred (and, of course, the fact that Vlad is more
comfortable dealing with Drageran fencers than they are dealing with
Eastern fencers is a significant advantage, as is Loish).
>Dragaereans use sword and dagger, but then so does Vlad - the
>main difference is the stance and footwork.
Well...and blade.
>When he identifies his blade as a rapier, I think it is just that (or
>maybe a smallsword - the difference between a rapier and a smallsword
>is really one of length, and that only a half dozen inches)- a blade
>lighter then a longsword that is excellent for both thrusts and cuts.
A one-handed, civilian blade suited to both thrusts and cuts, yes.
(longswords are 1 1/2 handed, really). And FWIW, the difference is
closer to a foot -- an "average" rapier is about 42 inches (varying
with height; I wouldn't be surprised if an average Drageran rapier was
50 inches or more); an average smallsword is in the low 30's (my salle
usually cuts down epee blades for the purpose).
>Khaavern is shown in a classic epee stance (high ward I think),
Mixing terms? Wards is a rapier term; I don't remmeber what stance
Khaavern took, though from what you said it could be a high seven or
two or a prima ward. (mixing terminology of my own...but 7 is palm
up, point down, on the inside (right if you're left handed, left if
your'e right handed); 2 is palm down, point down, outside (the
opposite of inside), prima is palm down, point down, inside.)
>but that doesn't assume he is an epee fighter.
Quite unlikely, in fact, since epee [modern term, of course; epee is
just "sword" in French] is a 19th century dueling sword, which was
never worn, only used for dueling or competition.
>The Italians (cappo ferro maybe?) also "discovered" the lunge before
>"modern" fencing, the sport, evolved (and kept it a secret).
Not very -- it was in manuals throughout europe bu the end of the 15th
or 16th centuries. The Italians did perfect the lunge-based stance
and linear form (the lunge was pre Cappo Ferro, who was 17th century;
he did invent the linear approach to fencing, though), though there
are certainly advantages to some of the other approaches (frex,
Destreza, a form of Spanish fencing, avoids actions as committed as
the lunge, and instead relies on redirection and taking advantage of
an opponent's actions, among other things).
>I see elements of both the sport and dueling art in Steve's descriptions.
I do see elements of the Steve's experience with the sport in the
descriptions, which is why I try to make things make sense. :)
>Vlad uses lunges and tip cuts, but no ballista (sp?).
Balestra, (plural balestrae?); mostly irrelevant, since Vlad doesn't
describe footwork much...and isn't a fool enough to jump onto the
point of his Dragaeran opponents, but will generally make them come to
him and hit what he can get (which actually makes his preference for
hands quite reasonable -- if he doesn't want to walk through his
opponent's sweet spot, he's going to have to take the targets
presented).
>Rapier fighting uses all the moves of epee, foil and sabre, because those
>sports evolved from the art. Vlad seems to use them all as well.
This is simply not true -- a rapier is a very different weapon from a
foil or sabre (or epee, for that matter), and techniques that work
with those weapons simply -will not- work with a full-size rapier.
This is like saying that a carriage can do everything that a car can,
since a car evolved from a carriage. They're simply very different
things, even if the goal is similar.
A smallsword is actually somewhat closer, simply from being shorter
and closer to the handling characteristics of a foil (the modern
version of which was invented as a practice waapon for the smallsword)
and even a sabre (but with a different grip); it's still nothing like
an epee, though -- an epee is a later weapon, evolved with the
assumption of matched weapons (dueling only, remember) and without the
need or expectation that you'd be carrying the thing around with you.
--
Joshua Kronengold (mneme at io.com) "I've been teaching |\ _,,,--,,_ ,)
--^--him...to live, to breathe, to walk, to sample the /,`.-'`' -, ;-;;'
/\\joy on each road, and the sorrow at each turning. |,4- ) )-,_ ) /\
/-\\\I'm sorry if I kept him out too late"--Vlad Taltos '---''(_/--' (_/-'