Dragaera

Swords, and a tolerable acquintance with their length

Penney, Sean seanp at ea.com
Fri Aug 16 13:05:44 PDT 2002

Sorry for any vagueness - I am an SCA rapier fighter with only vicarious Olympic experience.  We tend to mix terms since our teachers are often modern fencers who have joined and of course excelled.  When we discuss wards we do not refer to the modern sport - only how they can be used in our recreationist sport.

I have and use two types of blades - a 32 inch Schlager blade (guess that's a smallsword) and a 43 inch Deltin (rapier - but we call them all rapiers regardless of length), one with a bell guard and the other spanish.  We fight sword and main gauche (or baton, or cloak, or buckler or open hand).  They lend themselves to different styles and stances.  We take the best of modern fencing (I hope), mix it with cavalier stylings and generally have a blast.  Because of this past-time I can easily envision Vlad or Khaavren stamping and beating back and forth when fighting - it seems very similar to what we do at the Academy.

But because many of our Dons are modern fencers, we generally adapt modern moves to our sport.  We whip our blades like sabre fighters; many of us use classic French or Italian hand positions for effective epee parries, while others prefer sabre parries; some use a reversed stance and parry mostly with dagger, while others take the forward stance and parry with the sword more often.  Some use overhand grips, (usually with the Deltins), while others use underhand (generally with the Schlagers).

This mixing of styles and periods seems very similar to what Steve describes as swordplay, especially in the Khaavren novels - and I guess that was my point.

A one-handed, civilian blade suited to both thrusts and cuts, yes.
(longswords are 1 1/2 handed, really).  And FWIW, the difference is
closer to a foot -- an "average" rapier is about 42 inches (varying
with height; I wouldn't be surprised if an average Drageran rapier was
50 inches or more); an average smallsword is in the low 30's (my salle
usually cuts down epee blades for the purpose).

>Khaavern is shown in a classic epee stance (high ward I think),

Mixing terms?  Wards is a rapier term; I don't remmeber what stance
Khaavern took, though from what you said it could be a high seven or
two or a prima ward.   (mixing terminology of my own...but 7 is palm
up, point down, on the inside (right if you're left handed, left if
your'e right handed); 2 is palm down, point down, outside (the
opposite of inside), prima is palm down, point down, inside.)

>but that doesn't assume he is an epee fighter.

Quite unlikely, in fact, since epee [modern term, of course; epee is
just "sword" in French] is a 19th century dueling sword, which was
never worn, only used for dueling or competition.

>The Italians (cappo ferro maybe?)  also "discovered" the lunge before
>"modern" fencing, the sport, evolved (and kept it a secret).

Not very -- it was in manuals throughout europe bu the end of the 15th
or 16th centuries.  The Italians did perfect the lunge-based stance
and linear form (the lunge was pre Cappo Ferro, who was 17th century;
he did invent the linear approach to fencing, though), though there
are certainly advantages to some of the other approaches (frex,
Destreza, a form of Spanish fencing, avoids actions as committed as
the lunge, and instead relies on redirection and taking advantage of
an opponent's actions, among other things).

>I see elements of both the sport and dueling art in Steve's descriptions.

I do see elements of the Steve's experience with the sport in the
descriptions, which is why I try to make things make sense. :)

>Vlad uses lunges and tip cuts, but no ballista (sp?).

Balestra, (plural balestrae?); mostly irrelevant, since Vlad doesn't
describe footwork much...and isn't a fool enough to jump onto the
point of his Dragaeran opponents, but will generally make them come to
him and hit what he can get (which actually makes his preference for
hands quite reasonable -- if he doesn't want to walk through his
opponent's sweet spot, he's going to have to take the targets
presented).

>Rapier fighting uses all the moves of epee, foil and sabre, because those
>sports evolved from the art.  Vlad seems to use them all as well.

This is simply not true -- a rapier is a very different weapon from a
foil or sabre (or epee, for that matter), and techniques that work
with those weapons simply -will not- work with a full-size rapier.
This is like saying that a carriage can do everything that a car can,
since a car evolved from a carriage.  They're simply very different
things, even if the goal is similar.

A smallsword is actually somewhat closer, simply from being shorter
and closer to the handling characteristics of a foil (the modern
version of which was invented as a practice waapon for the smallsword)
and even a sabre (but with a different grip); it's still nothing like
an epee, though -- an epee is a later weapon, evolved with the
assumption of matched weapons (dueling only, remember) and without the
need or expectation that you'd be carrying the thing around with you.


-- 
     Joshua Kronengold (mneme at io.com) "I've been teaching |\      _,,,--,,_  ,)
--^--him...to live, to breathe, to walk, to sample the   /,`.-'`'   -,  ;-;;'  
  /\\joy on each road, and the sorrow at each turning.   |,4-  ) )-,_ ) /\     
/-\\\I'm sorry if I kept him out too late"--Vlad Taltos '---''(_/--' (_/-'