Dragaera

Swords, and a tolerable acquintance with their length

Joshua Kronengold mneme at io.com
Fri Aug 16 13:53:05 PDT 2002

Matt Jennings writes:
>>===== Original Message From Joshua Kronengold <mneme at io.com> =====
>>Matt Jennings writes:
>>>Vlad uses the 'modern' side stance, which exposes little of his body.  This
>>>means he can parry/attack with one hand while using his other to do
>>>his little  tricks. (throw knives, shurikens, etc...)
>>
>>>Khaavren et al use a full-face stance, meaning they usually need a poinard 
>to
>>>defend that side of their body.
>>
>>It actually goes the other way -- smallsword fencers tend to use a somewhat
>>more extreme stance, since the smallsword is fast enough that fencing
>>tends to get a bit linear (and in 18th century duels, off-hand weapons
><big snip>

>I am really only referring to how the styles are described in the books (I 
>don't have nearly the knowledge you have).

Understood.

>But I always thought the general idea of 'modern' fencing (stance and
>all) is also based on having a good length to the sword in
>combination with the side stance, gives a excellent range to the
>attack.

Kinda there are a bunch of things combining here:

The ability to make a vigorous attack can be very powerful, and a
fully sideways stance allows a lunge of maximal power and distance
(and decreases the visible target).  However, it makes it harder to
get the off-hand into play without contorting the body, and the
off-hand can also be very powerful, and makes diagonal and circular
movement somewhat more awkward.

With a light enough blade, it becomes less necessary to step away from
an attacking blow (to gain time) as -well- as defend against the blow
the hand is faster enough than the foot that you can parry and riposte
in the same time (or faster) that you can take a single step.  So the
main reasons for circular and diagonal movement (to act as a secondary
defense against a blow) lower in prominence, rendering things more
linear (and therefore also giving more of an advantage to a linear
stance, since you're less likely to face an attack from other angles).

Control of distance, since to an extent, things are 1-dimensional
(along a line), rather than 2-dimensional, becomes much more important
[not that it wasn't important before; it's just even more important]
-- the balestra, the lunge, the patanando (quick step+lunge) and so on
are all intended to control distance.

Another (minor) thing to remember is that fencing blows aren't really
"thrown" so much as "placed" -- a blow (thrust or cut) can be
certainly be made with vigor...but a sequence like "thrust, partial
parry, deception of the parry, counter into the attack, deception of
the counter, replacing the point" as what is effectively a single
action (with minor adjustments throughout) isn't all -that- unusual;
the fact that you can, with one action, lunge into your opponent's
distance doesn't mean they can't side-step and hit you in the middle
of your lunge (in fact, that's the ideal Spanish (well, La Veda
Destreza) response to an over-committed lunge).

I'm not sure if I answered your question above; feel free to restate
if not. :)

>(Which is why Vlad does fine against the Dragerans 
>larger swords.)

Vlad's control of distance and timing is clearly masterful...but I
think at least as much of it is that he's using an unfamiliar
style...and that he tends to go for easy targets rather than trying a
deep lunge (most of the time), plus the fact that with a 
lighter and smaller weapon, he can often deceive his opponent's blades
(one reason the smallsword, in expert hands, is often more deadly than
a rapier). Frex, he could convince them to move one way and quickly
disengage (and attack along their blades with opposition, though I don't
remember this type of maneuver being described).

>>Hmm. I need to re-read 500 years after.
>I just read it again recently.  It so rocks.

Oh, yeah.  I actually need to re-read both the historical, preparatory
to the new release. 

-- 
     Joshua Kronengold (mneme at io.com) "I've been teaching |\      _,,,--,,_  ,)
--^--him...to live, to breathe, to walk, to sample the   /,`.-'`'   -,  ;-;;'  
  /\\joy on each road, and the sorrow at each turning.   |,4-  ) )-,_ ) /\     
/-\\\I'm sorry if I kept him out too late"--Vlad Taltos '---''(_/--' (_/-'