Dragaera

Phoenix Guards - Lavode or Warlord?

Gaertk at aol.com Gaertk at aol.com
Wed Sep 11 07:52:37 PDT 2002

In a message dated Wed, 11 Sep 2002 4:15:36 AM Eastern 
Standard Time, David Silberstein <davids at kithrup.com> writes:

> On Mon, 9 Sep 2002 Gaertk at aol.com wrote:
>
>> In a message dated Mon, 9 Sep 2002 7:18:22 PM Eastern
>> Standard Time, David Silberstein <davids at kithrup.com> 
>> writes:
>>
>>> This is a question which I always want to ask Steve every
>>> time I read the ending of "Phoenix Guards", and I keep
>>> forgetting.  Well, this time I'll not forget!
>
> I was really hoping SKZB would give at least *some* 
> response, but it appears that he has buggered off (and 
> perhaps left an oblique nose-thumb in my direction, 
> although I may be reading too much into it):
>
>   http://www.dreamcafe.com/weblog.cgi
>
>] Tue Sep 10th, 2002 6:01 AM
>
>] Off on a long pilgrimage.  A few days in central 
>] California, then Minnesota to catch the last couple 
>] weekends of the Renfest.  I'll be back in early October, 
>] and maybe then I'll have my thoughts organized for the 
>] rant in which I explain why I think historical accuracy is 
>] over-rated in fantasy.  Yee-ha.
>
> "historical accuracy is over-rated"????
> Hmpf.

Funny, I read that as being directed towards myself.  I 
guess its aimed at all us nitpickers :)

>>> Did Paarfi err?
>>
>> My motto: when in doubt, blame Paarfi.
>
> Several hypotheses:
>
> 1) Paarfi is in fact reflecting a discrepency in the 
> historical record:  Khaavren's (or somebody's) earlier 
> reports or letters refer to Gyorg Lavode, and the records 
> of the later testimony mention only Lytra e'Tenith.  Paarfi 
> left this in deliberately, figuring that if *he* was 
> confused, so should everyone else be.

Heh.  He does make a comment about not revising the parts 
he's already written when faced with new information.

> 2) Khaavren was the victim of an illusion or shape-shift 
> (or memory edit spell), perhaps created by Seodra, and he 
> later found out the truth.  Or perhaps the Orb itself 
> *compelled* him to state the truth? (Interesting thought, 
> that).

Hmmm... interesting, but kinda weak.  And remember, Khaavren
didn't figure out who it was until G'aereth tells Aerich that
Gyorg is upset with them.

> 3) Politics:  Both Gyorg & Lytra were tied to Seodra, but 
> Gyorg was, for whatever reason, untouchable, and was left 
> alone after the plot was uncovered.  The discrepency was 
> Paarfi's way of pointing this out.

Ooooo... I like this one.  A bit more subtle than normal for
Paarfi, but not beyond reason.  I still can't figure out if
he realised the fort and fortress comment was a joke.

> 4) Perhaps Khaavren really did forget about Gyorg in his 
> rush to get out his accusation of Seodra, and we have 
> learned something interesting about how you can tell what 
> you *think* is the truth under the Orb.  But then Lytra 
> should have been able to testify, saying "I was not in that 
> room with that woman", and that would have been true also, 
> which would have shown the flaws in testifying under the 
> Orb.

Here you come close to the main reason why I believed Paarfi 
messed up:  if Lytra *had* been in the room guarded by her 
brother, then it was *really* stupid of her to mention her 
brother's death.  Though, technically, its possible she only
saw Khaavren and didn't know the cause of the duel that 
killed her brother.

> Hmmm.  Some of the above are simultaneously possible; some 
> are mutually exclusive.

I like the way you speculate; have you given any thought to
where Kiera was when Stony died?  That one's been bugging me
for years, becuase you can't blame it on unreliable narrators
or even typoes.

>>> Have I missed a subtle clue?  What?
>>
>> Perhaps; let's see if I can find that post Brust made on
>> rasfw... well, this isn't the one I remembered[1], but it
>> says the same thing [last paragraph]:
>>
>>http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=526oq3%24g86%40news5.wavefront.com
>
> But this isn't the same thing at all!   We're not talking
> about a discrepency of some amount of orbs, or the color of 
> somebody's garment; this is about who was involved in a 
> critical plot point of political intrigue!

So what are the intentional inconsistencies he put in?

--KG