David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > Chris Olson - SunPS <Chrisf.Olson at Sun.COM> writes on 26 November 2002 > at 09:50:08 -0800 > > I get cranky when far-future societies have > anything recognizable as > > religion, personally. Makes no sense > it would last that long. > > > Now, as a die-hard skeptic and militant agnostic, I'd > > *like* to agree with you, but... > > > > Why do you think we, as a species, would have no religion in the > > far-future? Up to now, it seems to be going strong, and we've > > been around and evolving (well, SOME of us have been evolving:) > > for what, twenty thousand years, give or take? (I'm not sure > exactly > how long homo sapiens have been conducting religious > practices...:) > > It's going strong *here*, and in a lot of third-world places, but it's > remarkably dead throughout the rest of the developed world. We're > kind of an outlier. > > > But I'm curious as to why you think it would be gone... > > Partly optimism, partly that it is so clearly counter-productive. ooops.... I dare say that I've seen the positive affect that can happen when someone who practices their faith does so, even if the very act is neanderthalic to you, anything that enriches the life of humanity to me doesn't seem clearly counter-productive. What is counter-productive is arguing about it, there is always going to be someone out there that believes the exact opposite of you and to them on a fundamental or 'spiritual' level if you prefer. Fundamentals don't budge otherwise they wouldn't be fundamental to those people. I'm faithless so to speak, but I have witnessed the power of what faith can do by watching others. It has been my personal opinion for quite a while there is no greater human force than belief, after all we don't act based on things we don't believe to be true. Near as I can tell mostly every religion has pushed some pretty key concepts in human interaction -- of which Bill and Ted can best sum up "Be excellent to each other." What I think is actually counter-productive is idiots believing they need to 'convert someone' or 'kill in the name of god', or pretty much anything else in the name of god (the idea of their faith or whatever), after all if god wants something done I'm sure It'd prefer to do it itself but I could be wrong about that. I'd like to believe that is what most atheists are missing because it's what I felt I was missing for so long when trying to decide if I was one. I've seen the argument that not believing in a god makes more 'sense' because you lack any proof for it's existence therefore the default is 'no god' have you thought that it is actually just as rational to believe exactly the opposite? That God exists unless I am given some good reason for his incapability to exist? How would you explain reality? Here's the big part Can you prove it?! Not a chance; and you know it. Being an atheist as far as I can tell means you've decided there is no such thing as god. Being 'x religion' that believes in god means you've decided you believe in god. That is all. The two of those factions arguing is in fact futile if their goal is to convince the other. They have along the way spurned plenty of ideas and good ones too, just like many other beliefs have for humanity. Mostly everyone you will see accepts that the universe exists and that if for no other reason than without it's existence we wouldn't be here right this second and that it's the biggest force we know of. that I owe any 'patronage' or what have you to the universe or the power that is behind it's existence, if that's a god so be it. Somehow I think that if it mattered if I personally believed in the existence of said god it'd be clearer than it is, as it stands I exist and I'm pleased about that, 1500 years ago maybe someone thought what I'm thinking and limited themselves to the concept of owing their patronage to the earth... what's the worst thing that we could do?(destroy each other? Ha we already do that! In the name of many things, things as mundane as money) and then what's the best thing? Cherish the earth? Cherish the universe?! How counter-productive is it ponder these things? The lack of religion in Sf/fantasy would to me make it to me Less believable. "Be excellent to each other."