Dragaera

Damiano's Lute

Wed Nov 27 14:06:31 PST 2002

Lydia wrote, and I hereby forward:

At 02:20 PM 11/26/02 -0600, you (Mia) wrote:
Frank,

Since there is no *belief* involved in atheism, that means you've 
*proven* that there is no god?  Neat trick if you can do it.


You can't prove a negative.  That's a basic tenet of logic.  What, you 
don't think logic can be used?  That means this discussion has to veer 
off into the relative, irrational, and the invisible -- exactly the 
ground that materialists don't believe in.  It's obviously to the 
advantage of theists to try to move the argument there, but not very 
convincing.  At the moment, I don't believe in small furry creatures 
>from Alpha Centauri, but show me one with sufficient bona fides, and I 
certainly will.  Haul me up a God from out of the deep, with sufficient 
bona fides, and I'll believe in him, too.  I'm quite catholic, that way.


Lydia Nickerson    lydy at demesne.com
Dulciculi Aliquorum

...the relative, irrational, and the invisible -- exactly the ground 
that materialists don't believe in.

Yeah, but it's still *there*, isn't it?  The differences in our 
feelings, perceptions and personalities exist, whether they are material 
or explicable or quantifiable or not.  DDB would probably argue that 
they are entirely the result of neurochemical activity in our brains, 
and that if they difffer sharply from the norm, we will someday be able 
to "correct" them.  He would then remove from my personality the flaw 
that makes me feel supported by the love of God.

Maybe, but he's speculating.  He would say I'm speculating, too.  No, I 
can't pick God up in my hands and bring him to you.  And, I can't say; 
"At precisely 6:00 this evening, God will prove that he exists by 
writing "peace on earth" in the sky."  I have experience of God that is 
entirely subjective, immaterial, and illogical, and I find it quite 
convincing.

There's a famous quote that says "Faith is the substance of things hoped 
for, the evidence of things not seen."  DDB has his own faith--similar 
to Asimov or Roddenberry, he seems to believe in the future of 
humankind, ever evolving toward something wiser and more rational.  I 
find his faith quite as repellent as he finds mine.  As to whose hopes 
will be rewarded, we just don't know yet, do we?

Mia