On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 12:02:05AM -0600, Lydia Nickerson <Lydy at demesne.com> wrote: > At 11:47 PM -0600 11/27/02, Matthew Hunter wrote: > >On Wed, Nov 27, 2002 at 11:52:02PM -0600, Lydia Nickerson > ><Lydy at demesne.com> wrote: > >> I'm with DDB on the neurochemistry. Having the last half of my life > >> on various psych drugs, I'm fully convinced of the chemistry of my > >> existence. There have also been studies, some recent, which suggest > >> that religious states, such as deep meditation or prayer or feeling > >> like one is speaking directly to god are physical states, ones that > >> some people's bodies are designed to accept. A genetic > >> predisposition toward God, like I have a genetic predisposition to > >> manic depression. > >This doesn't necessary deny the validity of that experience. > I never said it did. Nor did I mean to imply it. I know -- I was just pointing it out, because it came to me as a message from the alien in orbit and I thought it was interesting. ;) > >> In many ways, I think it's really really cool that > >> we're finding out so much about how the world works, and being able > >> to medicate people's brains in more and more precise ways. I don't > >> worry about losing my humanity very often. Not yet. The danger will > >> come when people stop having the right to choose their own medical > >> care. In the mean time, Better Living Through Chemistry! > >In case you haven't noticed, that's already becoming the case. > >Read up on ritalin and kids for a good example. > What I've read mostly makes me want to murder the people who write > those articles. Peter Breggin is on my shit list, very very high up. > All drugs are misprescribed. All diseases are misdiagnosed. Those > people I know of who actually have children who are hyperactive have > not rushed into drug therapy, nor were they pushed into it by > authority figures. Moreover, there's a good body of knowledge, > getting larger, on what Ritalin is and isn't good for. The thing > that I think is the greatest problem is that GPs are allowed to > prescribe psych drugs without putting their patients under any sort > of proper psychiatric care. A large number of the anecdotal > incidents reported as proving that Ritalin or Prozac or another one > of the psych drugs are terribly dangerous all involve doctors who are > not psychiatrists and who did not consult one. Let me put some perspective into this discussion. I am (was) a Ritalin Kid. One of the very early ones. I was legitimately diagnosed with appropriate consultation (psychologists and medical doctors). So far as I am aware, there was no pressure on my parents for a drug solution (in fact they tried several alternatives first). Certainly it had a profound effect on my mental processes, arguably for the better. But all of that pales to insignificance beside the fact that no one bothered to ask me. I'm not making any fantastic claims here; I just have sincere doubts about the desirability of drug therapy, particularly when it's involuntary. Defining different modes of thought as "wrong" and designating them for "correction" through involuntary treatment is extremely dangerous from a social perspective alone. > >>Personally, I have severe concerns about any sort of compulsory (or > >>even merely encouraged) regression to some defined "normality". > >>Diversity of thought and opinion are worthwhile > >>things; creativity and art are social goods; the existing > >>structures need to be challenged rather than assumed. > Did you know that Allen Ginsberg became a poet on the advice of his > shrink? (If you don't know who Allen Ginsberg is, you should take a > quick look around Google. He was not, however, "normal" and he > definitely challenged existing structures.) There's good psychiatry > and bad psychiatry, same as all other medicine. However, I think > that there are a lot more good shrinks out there than there are bad. Not in my experience -- but I very much do NOT want to have this argument. > [...] > When I was first prescribed Prozac, I was very very upset about > taking a drug, and didn't know if I should, etc. etc. You know the > rant. Someone who was then my friend (and this may be the only good > turn he ever did me) said, "Lydia, you've taken LSD, and you're still > you. How can you be afraid of Prozac?" I decided he had a point. I am frankly boggled. There is no logical connection between these things. If that was sufficient to resolve your dilemna, well, I'm glad it worked for you, but I would never, ever, use such an analogy. -- Matthew Hunter (matthew at infodancer.org) Public Key: http://matthew.infodancer.org/public_key.txt Homepage: http://matthew.infodancer.org/index.jsp Politics: http://www.triggerfinger.org/index.jsp