Matthew Hunter <matthew at infodancer.org> writes: > On Fri, Nov 29, 2002 at 12:02:55AM -0600, David Dyer-Bennet <dd-b at dd-b.net> wrote: > > Caliann the Elf <calianng_graves at yahoo.com> writes: > > > I have yet to see the Scriptures of a major religion propose > > > violence and harm upon others, even those not of their religion. > > > The Bible does not do so. The Quran does not do so. The Talmud > > > does not do so. In fact, in all of them, you will find a LOT of > > > teachings that can be effectively translated as "Will you PLEASE be > > > NICE to each other? Thanks, this is your God." > > > > Then you've never looked at the bible, in particular. > > > > I'm an extremely poor biblical scholar, but even I can point out that > > the early Israelites were punished for being *too lenient* to defeated > > enemies, and that while the injunction against letting a witch live > > may be a mistranslation, that argument is about "witch", not about the > > rest of it, so *somebody* shouldn't be allowed to live. > > "poisoner", I think, which I frankly don't have much problem > with. :) As I say, the issue is with *who* should not be suffered to live. That's clearly an example of the bible proposing violence and harm upon an other; which Caliann says doesn't exist in the bible. Furthermore, it's not a rare exception; in fact it's rather the norm. > As for the rest, there are certainly lots of examples from the OT > of a vengeful, bloodthirsty God. > > I suspect most people with a Christian bent prefer to ignore the > OT. Hard to do, since the identification of Jesus as the Messiah depends entirely on OT prophecies. A number of the specific dietary rules from the OT, christians are specifically exempted from in the NT; but then, the presence of that exemption shows that the authors of the NT believed that OT applied. So the *rest* of the OT, the parts not specifically voided by the NT, should still apply. Besides, the OT was included when the bible was put together. Clearly those people thought it still applied. > > > A side note about those poor books that everyone seems to be using > > > as an excuse to do nasty, evil things: Imagine some nutcase reading > > > the Taltos series and deciding that he is now a follower of the > > > Prophet Vlad, who speaks for God, a.k.a. Steve. Now if this looney > > > goes out and kills some people in the name of the Holy Order of > > > Assasination, who is to blame? The nutcase? Or perhaps Steve is to > > > blame for being God? > > Steve's books are identified as fiction, and identified as taking > > place on a world different from this one. That makes it pretty clear > > to me. > > It might be more useful to note that Steve's books are not > actively promoted as "this is how you should live your life", > complete with a system of rewards and punishments for failing to > say "Shut up, Loiosh" often enough. Yes, that's another important difference. Both the books themselves, and the actions of Steven and his publisher, tell us that the books are *entertainment*. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b at dd-b.net / http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/ John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info