At 08:22 PM 11/29/2002 -0800, definitely what wrote: >Steven Brust writes: > Remember, I'm not denying the existence of god; I'm denying that > there is a god outside of the realm of ideas. > >I believe that if there does exist a god outside the realm of ideas, >he is beyond our ability to perceive him, and thus out of play. Hmmm. Okay, Gedanken experiment: If there is an objectively existing god who cannot be perceived, and has no effect on the material world, how does this differ from there being no god?