"H. T." <electrictwilight at hotmail.com> wrote: Okay, now that everyone knows where you are living, I wonder if you ever go outside of your house? :) **************************************************************************************** <chuckles> Actually, I no longer live in Texas. I live in (surprise!) Las Vegas. However, I do not leave the house. In fact, I think if the house were magically trasported to mid-Nebraska, I would not notice. This has only been the case for the last four months, though, and NOT my normal style of living. Perhaps it is easier for some to ignore than others. I have had problems ignoring it and I live in So. Cal. which I would believe by comparison to Texas is very liberal in its religious views. (Or, perhaps, now that I look back on Frank Mayhar’s thread, and see he is from here too I wonder if we are in a more religious climate than we would like to imagine.) Yet, every time I make a solid attempt to ignore it, or people that are trying to push it, I find myself having it pushed at me. When this happens I eventually, (as I usually do *try* to ignore it but these people won't quit), find myself yet again having to stop and say "look, here are my views and no offense but anything you say is not going to change my mind on that, so please stop trying because at no point in this conversation am I going to agree with you, ever." *************************************************************************************** Please clarify this for me. Are these people the door-to-door religious types or the recently "saved" and have to spred the joy to everyone around them religious types? The former you would treat like any saleperson. You would repeat " I'm not interested. No, I am still not interested. Nope, I'll never be interested." while firmly closing the door and locking it. Of course, you can always invite them in and discuss theological points until their eyeballs pop out. That can be fun. The latter, assuming it is a social situation, you would treat like I treat my vegetarian friends when they express their horror that I would kill innocent animals for food. You smile apologetically and say " I am sorry, but I don't think I will change my views anytime soon. Can we move on to a less volatile subject?" Okay, what do you do about holidays? Times when people are in this hospital? Birth of children in your family? Can you ignore it then when they say "If only God..." or "God has been good to us..." etc. **************************************************************************************** I think there is a difference between us in this. I am not a Christian nor do I believe in " God". However, if I am going to participate in holidays, births, deaths, illnesses, etc., with my family and friends, I would expect not to be offended by the host/esses religious practices. This holds doubly true for my family, as I am well aware of their practices. It would seem to me the height of ill-manners to reply " How dare you invite me to the Christening of your new-born child when you have been told I am not Christian!" Instead, I would think that these people wish to share thier happiness in bringing new life into the world and, since they couldn't very well invite me to the actual birth, have invited me to a ceremony that is important to THEM. If I am so offended that I cannot conscious a trip to a church, I would write a thank-you note and enclose a gift for the child. However, I am much more likely to attend, coo over the baby and express my joy to the new parents. As for deaths, I would expect a funeral or memorial to be held in accordance to the beliefs of the deceased. If I just could not stand hearing "Ashes to ashes and dust to dust, as is the will of God", then I would send flowers and express my condolences. Again, I am much more likely to attend, ask if there is anything the bereived needs, and express my condolences in person. My mother is a Christian. When she dies, I will arrange a Christian funeral for her. This is only respectful to the deceased. For hospitalizations, I would think it rather selfish of me to be above at least sending a card expressing the hopes that whatever Deity they believe in will help them out. Again, this is good manners. Or worse yet, expressing their Christian views and their disdain for anyone that is not Christian. ********************************************************************************** In this, if they were only expressing their views, I would smile and gently disengage myself from the conversation. If they were expressing disdain in the way you express, I would gently remind them that not everyone holds their beliefs. In a social situation, realizing that you have just been insulting someone whom you have been conversing with *should* cause enough embarressment to teach them better manners. If it does not, I would make a mental note to avoid that person. Humph, I myself have found the exact opposite. In fact one of the reasons I left my last job because the entire office tried to push religion. The funny thing is though, they were of various religions and always trying to push it, I now work for a group of Mormons and I hardly ever hear it. Nonetheless, it is hard when even *they* start talking religion, as it seems a great majority of people do at one time or another, to know how to speak. This is especially difficult when ignoring the situation would be inappropriate, saying "I am an __________" would be even less appropriate, or even worse may give them reason to think about terminating my employment (other than my reading this darn message board instead of working half the time). ******************************************************************************************* <chuckles> I used to work for a company in which I was the ONLY non-Christian. They would happily hold Bible Study during breaks or sing Hymns during lunch. However, I did not feel this was an infringement on my rights. If they wanted to do such things during their free time, it was their right. It was my right to ignore them, discuss the merits of Mumbo Jumbo, God of the Congo or leave. Often I would go outside to smoke or to grab a bite to eat from across the street. Sometimes I would join in the discussion. If they were singing, I would often join in. Hey, I sound GOOD singing " Amazing Grace" As a company, I was the only "black sheep" and they had a mission: Help Caliann find God. I did not take offense to this. In fact, my attitude was "These people firmly believe that I am going to Hell....and want to save me from such a horrid fate. How cute!" In sum, I find the whole religion thing very difficult to ignore, so please elucidate to me as to how this can be accomplished since you attest that you have mastered this art. I swear if it is as simple as you make it and you have some ‘sure fire won’t fail method’ I will be eternally grateful. ******************************************************************************************* That "sure-fired method" is pretty simple: Quit caring that other people follow religion. If you are going to get upset that people discuss religion, debate religion, share religion, want you to understand their religion, etc., you might as well get just as upset that people want to discuss, debate, share and want you to understand democrat, republican, vegetarian, enviromentist, anarchist, survivalist and/or humanist views. Religion is just one of many subjects that can be enlightening or repugnant to those hearing it. Yet I do not hear lots of people complaining that they work in a repubilcan company and that their co-workers keep trying to push republican views on them. Don't tell me it's because society lacks proselytizing republicans because I have met a LOT of them. If you are going to be upset every time someone wishes to push a viewpoint upon you that is in oppsition to your own, you are going to be a very weary person. As soon as you quit caring that people have opposing religious views to your own and that these people are in your life will be the moment that you can say to them "You know, you wouldn't wish me to attempt to convert you to <insert ideology here>, why are you being so disrespectful of my right to have my own beliefs?" However, you cannot say that if you got onto them for discussing their religion with mutual friends that shared those beliefs....because you would have been disrespecting THIER rights to have THIER own beliefs. Peace, Caliann *Owned and Operated by the Grand Poohbah Cheese of the Universe* "Offense theives. -- they take it when it isn't offered." --Tom Digby --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now