Dragaera

The Great Debate....to DDB

David Dyer-Bennet dd-b at dd-b.net
Sat Nov 30 10:13:16 PST 2002

"David Rodemaker" <dar at horusinc.com> writes:

> > > > >Very mildly.  But they're still encouraging people to believe things
> > > > >on faith rather than evidence, for example, and that's bad. People do
> > > > >far to little thinking.
> > > > >*****************************************************************
> > > > >Clarify this for me please, are you saying that those that follow a
> > > > >religion don't think?
> > > >
> > > > Let's not say everyone.  Let us speak of someone who says, "I believe.
> I
> > > > believe purely on faith."  Now, would you say that this person, on
> this
> > > > subject, is thinking?
> > >
> > > Any type of mathematics beyond the measurement of discrete objects that
> can
> > > be physically manipulated and observed at the time of 'belief'.
> >
> > I can't parse this sentence, sorry.
> 
> Bah. It was poorly written in the first place.
> 
> > But I'll point out that "measurement of discrete objects" isn't
> > mathematics in the first place.
> 
> At it's most basic it certainly is. I measure this quantity (or count it if
> you prefer): 1 rock + 1 rock = 2 rocks. My arguement is that when you take
> mathematics beyond the concrete and discrete you are taking it's 'truths' as
> a matter of faith. Not only that but we do it despite a whole series of
> famous series of paradoxes and proofs that we then label as clearly
> nonsensical and should be ignored when applying mathematics in 'the real
> world'.

My degree is in math, in fact, so I have opinions about this :-). 

There's less faith in mathematics than in any other form of human
endeavor.  There's much more rigor, too. 

Now, people who *apply* mathematics to the real world have more to
explain; but I don't see their work as based on *faith*; rather, it's
based on empirical verification.  "These equations have been used to
model the strength of a beam for a *long* time and they seem to work.
We'll keep using them."

The exciting paradoxes don't invalidate what we have; they just
demonstrate that we can't actually prove everything that's true within
a consistent system.  That's philosophically challenging enough, but
it doesn't bring into question the underlying basis.
-- 
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b at dd-b.net  /  http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/
 John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net
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