>From: Philip Hart <philiph at SLAC.Stanford.EDU> >To: Andrew Lias <anrwlias at hotmail.com> >CC: dragaera at dragaera.info >Subject: RE: Two words about two letters etc. (small PotD Spoiler) >Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 14:19:21 -0800 (PST) > > > >3) I think my Teckla army with gatling guns vs Easterners point has >stood > > >unchallenged. > > > > Actually, I had already raised a challenge before you brought the point >up > > -- we have reason to believe that the Dragaeran nobility would *not* >have > > wanted to give peasants such weaponry. This was, after all, the reason >that > > the Japanese decided to eliminate the manufacture of guns from their own > > culture. > >In the thread above, when you made this point I argued that the Japan >analogy fails on your other argument - remote-control detonation. Actually, you are confusing me with another (and I don't blame you, given how many have weighed in). My only suggestion was that *some* sort of sorcerous counter-measure was developed. I was very careful to leave the exact nature of the counter-measure unspecified. In my opinion, people have been far too quick to jump in with the conclusion that sorcery was used to detonate the gunpowder. I don't think that that needs to necessarily be the case. Magic is both versatile and strange. There are many different ways that I can think of for firearms to be rendered moot, from having a spell that supresses the gunpowder, to spells that effect the accuracy of firearms, to spells that alter the psychology of the participants so that they would avoid using firearms, to spells that would put upper boundaries on missile velocities, and so forth. More importantly, I am fully aware that there must be many, many possibilities that I have not considered. All I know, for certain, is that we have the empirical fact that firearms do not exist in current Dragaeran culture. Given their military usefulness and given that Dragons, if no one else, would certainly embrace them if they were practical on the battlefield, I think that the simplest explaination is that they are *not* practical on the battlefield, for some reason. I would contend that sorcery is the most obvious reason that they wouldn't be practical, without bothering to speculate on the specific sorcerous impact (which I think is wise since we really know next to nothing about how magic actually works in their world and what it's advantages and limitations really are). I have yet to see any arguments which would dissuade me from making this speculation nor, certainly, any alternative arguments which I consider to be more plausible. I have, to myself, wondered if the Cycle itself might prevent the emergence of any technologies which could destabalize Dragaeran society, but I don't think that the Cycle works by immaculate fiat but, rather, by more subtle manipulations (e.g., inspiring a wizard who is trying to counter firearms on the battlefield). >Also remember that the nobility is diverse - I could imagine the Jhereg >emperor telling all Teckla it's their right to have and bear arms and then >selling them Saturday Night Specials. You're assuming a level of technological development, or interest, that would move firearms beyond mere battlefield utility. If firearms never got beyond the basic muzzle-loaders that would, all too frequently, blow up in the user's hand, before their effectiveness was negated, why would anyone bother developing a technology that had "failed" any further, especially when the Jhereg would have more than enough well-developed illicit technologies (both in terms of street weaponry and sorceries) to deal in? If there is one thing I don't see the Jhereg doing, it's a lot of millitary R&D. [1] >Or almost any emperor issuing >Teckla rifles to beat back an Eastern invasion. On the one hand, you speculate that the East regularly gets rolled over and crushed by superior Dragaeran sorcery, in order to have its own technologies reset, and, on the other, you imply that the East is such a grim threat that Dragaeran emporers would introduce socially destabilizing technologies in the hands of Teckla to fight them off. You will pardon me if I find that the two arguments seem be incompatible with one another. My own take is that the Dragaeran Empire is not, in fact, threatend by the East in any serious way, but that the amount of effort to fully conquer it exceeds the level of commitment (in resources, or otherwise) that would be needed to, indeed, stage a full conquest (in the same manner that Rome never fully conquered Britain, barbarians though they were). -- Andrew Lias [1] I would also suspect, although this is more of a hunch, that they would also be interested in keeping themselves beyond the wrath of the Tekla. I suspect that the Jhereg may realize that quality firearms, even if available, would tend to equalize their relationship with their customers in a way that they would find unacceptable. _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM: Try the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail