Ok, I need to write some code, but I do want to point to Norathar (not socialized as a Dragon I think but otherwise recognizably Dragony) and Mellar (a messy mixture socialized as a ? but still understandable on the basis of genetics) - Vlad (?) makes a speech about the strength of the House flavor toward the end of Jhereg I would quote if not AFB. Note also that our sample size for Houses beyond Dragon and Jhereg is rather small so my speculations sadly tend to be based on individuals. I disagree about What A Wonderful Chemistry but it doesn't matter. On Thu, 20 Feb 2003, Andrew Lias wrote: > [...] > >I don't see the distinction, frankly. You act because you were programmed > >that way by your genes, your environment, or some complex interaction > >between them. The degree to which genes, environment, or their interaction > >prevails affects social planning but without free will we're robots and > >there are bad robots (Grr! Arggh!) but not criticizable ones. > > I think that we're talking past one another, a bit. When I suggested that > scandal couldn't exist if all Dragaeran characteristics were inborn, I meant > that the very concept of law and social censur would have no function > because Dragaerans, quite literally, couldn't act in any way but the way > that they do, no matter what their environment. > > Laws and social customs work precisely because they act as environmental > factors used to modify behaviors. In this case, the distinction between > nurture and nature is cogent and important, whether or not one wants to > consider us robots. [1] > > To use Dennett's terminology: are Dragaerans sphexish? If a given Dragaeran > encounters a given circumstance, will that given Dragaerans behavior always > be a given result, regardless of its experiences, or will it be able to act > in a way that could not be predicted simply knowing its nature? Clearly > Dragaerans aren't utterly sphexish, but are they more sphexish than humans? > I think that they are a *bit* more... enough that you actually can > justifiably apply broad stereotypes to them that aren't simply the results > of racist bigotry, but not *much* more so. I think that environment is > sufficiently influential and unpredictable that the members of a given House > will display a wide range of characteristics that can't be easily explained > as simply being manifestations of their House Nature. Nor, to return to the > original point, safely derive an aspect of a House's nature by observing the > behavior of a single member of the house. Hence, I don't think that the > fact that Khaavren became melancholy can be used as a good basis to presume > that Tiassa are, thus, prone to melancholy. > > [...] > >These are all good points in my view - > > Why, thank you! > > >what I was getting at was that the > >House character can combine polarities - so there's the nurturing dragon > >mother along with the fierce one, as _PG_ and several (I believe) Vlad > >novels put it. I can see Tiassas being known for >both cat-like curiosity > >and for cat-like withdrawal. > > I think that one can certainly make that speculation, but, again, I don't > think that one can do so on the *basis* of one character's withdrawal. > > I would also note that not all cats (think tigers) are known for displaying > withdrawal. Since Tiassa are described as being like panthers with batlike > (!) wings, I hesitate to suppose that they're much like house cats. > > This isn't, of course, to say that you're wrong. For all I know, maybe this > really is a general trait of the Tiassa. I just don't think that we have > nearly enough evidence to suggest that it is. > > Well... I've certainly used up a lot of words, today. :) > > -- Andrew Lias > > [1] On the topic of robots: if one wants to suppose that a lack of free will > makes us robots, I would suggest that this doesn't diminish us but, rather, > vastly enhances the concept of a robot since the concept must now include > beings of immense subtlety and intelligence, much in the same way that > noting that life is a chemical process says something wonderful about > chemistry rather than something denigrating about life. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > >