> From: Philip Hart > Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 3:29 PM > > On Sun, 13 Jul 2003, Mark A Mandel wrote: > > > On Sun, 13 Jul 2003, Philip Hart wrote: > > > > #It's 29 hours, according to some nice FAQ somewhere. > > > > It's 30 hours, well attested. See my writeup at > > http://world.std.com/~mam/Cracks-and-Shards/time.html#clock > > > For the record, I was misquoting > http://www.mojoworld.net/sil/ref/world.html > > > For the record, I think I could come up with reasonable arguments against > your position - basically I'd say that you've simply asserted a D-minute > equals an E-minute and trusted a variety of Brusts (or rather, trusted a > particular set of writings of the Brusts over others). Maybe _he_'s the > one with the thing about 17 - and has systematically (more or less) > mistranslated the Vladiad and the Paariad to suit, so 17^2 days = 1 D-year > = 1 E-year results in the 30 hours figure. > > > > > After living on Dragaera for over 200,000 years, I rather imagine that > > the humans (Easterners) have adapted well to the 30-hour day. > > Fair enough - I've fallen into the error of thinking humans aren't subject > to selection pressure any more. However, on the other hand I would > imagine that the adaptations might not result in 30-hour circadian clocks > - there could be societal adaptations, such as several sleep periods per > day, or a willingness to not be up at dawn every day or to say farm by > torchlight - which might be coupled with genetic changes... Humans on Sol III continue to be subject to natural selection. You are correct in a way... "selection pressure" is, if nothing else, excessively different than it was x-thousand (or million, depending if you're religious or not) years ago. Selections continues to take place however, and I think many people will be surprised when some bored evolutionist writes a paper proving that point. Genetic changes is a non-term, really - genetic drift seems more accurate. Everyone is unique; trends occur within particular populations, certainly. I don't think any genetic change would be required to solve a 30 hour day regardless. I suspect it would be much more in the nature of personal adaptation, otherwise known as "getting used to it". A lot of research has been done on the topic of sleep and sleeplessness, but I think more telling research has been done by the US Navy SEALs. They have, among other things, something that I've heard referred to as "Hell Week", where they are required to stay awake for 7 days, or only get 3 hours of sleep per day - depending on who you ask - while maintaining an extrememly agressive schedule of PT. Then, at the end of Black Hawk Down (I hate to use a movie as a reference, even one as apparently accurate as that, but I don't know how to research this particular question), the SEAL who is almost a main character, he acts like the big brother to one of the sergeants in charge of a Ranger chalk, after being up for who the hell knows how long, grabs some food and head back out to help look for those who died. He tells the Ranger he was helping out to stay and get some rest, that he, the SEAL, will be able to do better on his own. Oh hell, now I can't remember if that guy was a Delta or a SEAL. Probably a Delta, because it seems like that was purely a land war. Grrrr. Blah, the point is valid regardless. Training makes you tougher, able to stand up to lack of sleep. This is an extreme example of "getting used to it". Why wouldn't 200,000 years of not knowing there was any other way to be give you the ability to live a 30 hour day without difficulty? > > Incidentally, how bright is it beneath the enclouding? Bright enough to > farm, obviously, and for Eastern-adapted eyes to work fine - this seems > odd. > In spite of my statements regarding how unneccesary genetic drift/change/whatever is, note that the Jenoine are known to have done something to Easterners as well, though what was never specified. Maybe Vlad's complaints about the Furnace being too bright are more than just him not being used to it. I don't think that's likely either, just wanted to throw it out there. It takes a lot of cloud to make it too dark to see, you know. I for one wouldn't be terribly upset to live in a world where it is perpetually grey and cloudy, and the light dimmer. I have very light-sensitive eyes - just to the point that I wear shades constantly - and would love it if this blasted heat/light we're experiencing in Utah this month would just never happen again. > > > > Just don't ask how Terran languages remain recognizeable over such a > > span, and the Easterners haven't gotten past medieval tech. Just... > > don't. > > Damn - too late - many times too late... The former I've ascribed to "SB" > taking some liberty in translation, the latter to Dragaeran depredations, > the gods, and most of all the Cycle. > Maybe the presence of the Great Sea, or something to do with the gods (or the Lords of Judgement particularly), means that technology doesn't work like it ought. Perhaps Verra (or someone else) simply kills whatever Easterner comes up with "the first step into the future" before it get published widely. Maybe Dragaera is stuck in some kind of loop where technology can't progress because of something to do with the existence of the Jenoine, or there is some quest that has to be fulfilled so that Dragaera can re-enter the timestream from the little bubble the Jenoine stuck it in... Personally, I'm most fond of the theories that involve Dragaera being stuck out of time or something. The Cycle is maybe a BAD thing, see, and until someone breaks it, this particular creation is stuck, unable to truly progress. Maybe that is what Vlad and Lady Teldra are going to do. Among other things. Kisc