As to the second phoenix in PotD, I'm fairly sure that somewhere it's told that her name was Jean Gray or something like that... ;P My actual topic is about the nature of the gods, specifically with regards to their ability to cross-breed with Dragaerans (Adron + Verra =Aliera) The author mentions the difference between how the two races perceive the gods--Dragaerans consider them to be super-powered sorcerors, and Esterners believe them to be something that is a different race entirely, to the end that they become a symbol, a characteristic, which is also close, but still not quite right. (the books mention that it is both and neither). It seems to me, for instance that Sethra is a goddess herself--she is vastly powerful, doesn't seem to be mortal, even before she "died" and what's more, is the embodiment of Dzur Mountain--a symbol for sorcery in its purest form-- the majesty, the mystery and the power. And yet, she is not limited to either of these things. She is her own agent, but works towards a very specific goal that is deeply involved with the success and fortune of the Empire. I think the only reason she isn't labelled a goddess is that she still has yet to step above the physical plain. Verra is concerned with a great many plains of reality. This ability to be in more than one place at the same time is somewhere mentioned as one of the necessary requirements of being a goddess. While it may seem that Sethra has already accomplished this with Kiera, I think she realizes that Kiera is just a test-run, and hasn't boosted her into the realm of divinity, and so Kiera has become a way to pass some time and go where Sethra can't. Verra, on the other hand, can be anywhere her idols are built. They seem to be focus points, beacons/anchors, for her consciousness. But I seem to have lost my original point. The issue is a complicated one, but I think I can quickly explain it. Apparently the gods came along to Dragaera (the planet) with the Jenoine as their servants. I believe it possible, probable in fact, that they were mutated from the breeding stock that populated the planet either before the Jenoine left their destination, or en route to the place--but instead of breeding them with animals, perhaps they cross-bred them with Jenoine, to give them sufficient power to be useful as servants. This allows them to 1) retain a human/dragaeran aspect that the Dragaerans may have found out about, thus their belief that they are simply elevated humans (dragaerans) but also allows them the power of the Jenoine, and entirely alien race whom we know live on different planes at the same time, thus creating the trait that they are symbols as well. Somewhere it is mentioned that Verra is a Demon Goddess because she was controlled by the Jenoine--but this doesn't make sense as *all* the gods were--and yet not all the gods are Demon Gods. Therefore, Verra must have been controlled at some other point--I'm not sure, having not read the book (though I have it now, yay!!!), whether it's explained in PoTD , or whether it will be in LoCB, or SL, but if it hasn't been yet, I think the best bet for an expose would be in SL. It's possible that Verra became a Demon Goddess when she fell in love with Adron (if she did) and if not then, then when she had Aliera. Loving Barlen was no problem--he was a God himself. But loving a human (dragaeran) is an entirely different matter as a human's agenda is entirely different from that of a god--forcing Verra to act (out of love, or maternal instinct) outside her own agenda, and thus making her a Demon Goddess. What do you people think about my theory on the gods---humans, bred with Jenoine? It also explains why so many of them still have trouble with 4 full-fledged Jenoine, and why the Jenoine look at humans the way they do. If their servants are like children, then humans *are* like pets to them. Verra at one point says the Necromancer is better at something than she herself is---this could be equated to humans being like children to the gods--every now and then you'll find a child prodigy who is better at a certain thing than many adults are. But there you have it. What do you guys think? Jon Carey <html><DIV> </DIV></html> _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail