Mark A Mandel <mam at theworld.com> writes: > On 21 Oct 2003, David Dyer-Bennet wrote: > #Although this may be one of those situations where we should make it > #as simple as possible, and no simpler; I may be trying to make it > #simpler than is possible. But the big thing that bugs me about IPA > #beyond the complexity is that they don't use any of the obvious > #associations, they always find some weird way to do it. > > Obviousness, or its lack, is in the mind of the beholder. That is, what > is obvious and natural to one person may be totally bizarre to another. Yes, exactly. However, the users of the drgaera.info pronunciation guide will mostly be English speakers (I suppose a few people reading the books in translation and who don't speak English will still find their way to the site and to that section; but I also suspect they'll mostly use the sound files, when they're up.) (Speaking of sound files, Steven sent me the first batch of recordings today, so I'll get to those as soon as I've met this afternoon's client deadline. I'll announce when sounds files are up for some words.) > # This is > #probably to make it less English-specific; but since my audience is > #specifically English-speakers (the web site isn't in any other > #languages), that's a drawback for me. > > It IS "International", and unlike ASCII it was not invented by and for > English-speakers with no conception of other languages. See > http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/ipa.html . In that URL, and in the > following quote, "IPA" means "International Phonetic Association" Yes, I know, and approve (remember, *I* am the one that brought them into the conversation!). But our users are not professional linguists, not already familiar with that coding system, and a system that takes advantage of knowledge of English and which is more similar to what is used in dicitionaries used by ordinary English-speakers will be much easier for people to understand. > #Hmmm; I suppose it might be possible to use the MW system by > #reference, not copying anything. Maybe. Or maybe I'll have to invent > #one in the end anyway. > > Don't. Or don't do it without asking a professional. Most people aren't > aware of the differences between their own speech and other people's. I've stolen one instead. I'm not sure the people who invented it are any more professionals than I am, though. But at least it's been used before and exposed to considerable comment, and even used in a published book (I grabbed the jargon file pronunciation system). And it's public domain, which helps. I've already had to add one sound to it. > Let's take a poll. > > 1. Do you pronounce "Don" and "dawn" the same? There *is* a difference in how I pronounce them, but it isn't significant; neither one is "wrong", I'd understand either one as meaning the correct word in context, and if you could construct a sentence where the context *doesn't* tell me which, I probably wouldn't automatically assume it from the pronunciation. > 2a. When you read question 1, did you react "Huh? Doesn't everyone?" > > 2b. ... or did you react "Huh? Does anyone?!" Too much time in pronunciation discussions recently, so I'm not likely to say either :-). -- David Dyer-Bennet, <dd-b at dd-b.net>, <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/> RKBA: <noguns-nomoney.com> <www.dd-b.net/carry/> Photos: <dd-b.lighthunters.net> Snapshots: <www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/> Dragaera/Steven Brust: <dragaera.info/>