On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Mark Englehart wrote: >At 12:02 AM 11/5/2003 -0800, David Silberstein wrote: > >>Do you know, I'm not sure I understand what "pull a grift" means in >>this context, nor when Aliera did so with Kragar. > >"Grift" means con or scam and I assume the original reference was >to the ending of Jhereg where everyone plays their parts to "sting" >the bad guy. Ah. I had forgotten that Kragar was indeed part of that. >>*cough*. Adron, rebel against the Emperor, and literally destroyer of >>the Empire, aka Aliera's dear daddy & Morrolan's hero. Mario, >>murderer of the Emperor, and accessory to the destruction of the >>Empire, aka Aliera's lover, and Morrolan's guest (although possibly >>without Morrolan's knowledge). > >I think you may be hitting a block thinking in Earther terms. >IMHO, on Dragaera, at least in the Empire, the devotion is not to >"King and Country" but to "God and Cycle." Adron thought he had >sufficient evidence that the Cycle had turned, therefore it was his >duty to the Empire to try and replace the Emperor. If Adron thought the Cycle had turned, *why* would he have wanted to use Elder Sorcery against the Orb? It should not have been necessary; his military victory would have proven that the Cycle had turned, and he would have gained the Orb *legitimately*. > Adron is remembered poorly by history because he tried to use Elder >Sorcery against the Orb, not for his rebellion. Indeed. Yet he's Morrolan's hero, and Aliera thinks he was a great daddy. Regarding Skinter, now: During the Interregnum, the Empire (by definition) did not yet exist. And thinking as a Dragon, it is force of arms that will determine whether the Empire *will* exist, and who will be in charge once it does. We the readers sympathize with the characters we know, and we see the Sethra & the Gods granting the Orb to Zerika, and we see her claim as being the one with the greatest legitimacy. But if Skinter wrests the Orb from her, by whatever means, then he would have been just as legitimate, and with much of the infrastructure of the Empire already in place. My point is, Skinter is no worse than Adron, in that both wanted to make a grab for the Orb, and both failed. I don't see Morrolan or Aliera despising him *just* because he desired to be Emperor, and was willing to fight by whatever means to attain that goal. That is, after all, the nature of the heart of the Dragon. >Mario's assassination of the emperor, while unique, would not have >been horrific. Jhereg murder people, emperors die, and if the Orb >has stopped protecting you, then it's saying it was time for it to >move on. The people who disapprove of Mario are those who disapprove >of murder as a tactic to begin with. And if Skinter had been able to kill or capture Zerika, well, as you say: "emperors die, and if the Orb has stopped protecting you, then it's saying it was time for it to move on". Again, Dragons understand the desire to win, which is exactly Skinter's goal. Aliera & Morrolan can certainly understand Skinter's motivation, and see that it is the same as Adron's. In fact, the only reason that I can think of that Morrolan would oppose Skinter is simply that he found himself allied himself with Zerika, and later befriended her. Morrolan might duel with Skinter, but I don't think he would otherwise reject him as a guest, assuming the Empire had in fact granted Skinter amnesty.