Dragaera

Below Hypothesis

David Silberstein davids at kithrup.com
Mon Nov 10 14:45:23 PST 2003

On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, Philip Hart wrote:

>On Mon, 10 Nov 2003, David Silberstein wrote:
>
>> The current "zoo" of nuclear and subnuclear particles is already
>> known and (mostly) named; hypothetical unnamed particles are not found
>> precisely because they are very difficult to create in the first
>> place (and even most hypothetical particles are already named!).
>
>I'm a particle physicist so supposedly know about this - my thesis
>(Measurement of the Ratio of the Invisible and Charged Leptonic
>Partial Widths of the Z Boson with the OPAL Detector at LEP) helped
>rule out some conjectured particles.  There is a large group of
>hypothesized particles (called supersymmetric) which are indeed
>named, and which we hopefully will begin investigating in 5-10 years
>- but AFAIK there is no reason to rule out other groups of particles
>at higher energies. 

[Feeling somewhat embarrassed - "Hey, grandma!  This, you see, this is
 an egg, right, and you make a hole in this end, using this pin,
 right, and then *another* hole in the *other* end, see?, and then you
 put your mouth on one of the holes, doesn't matter which one, and
 then you *suck* the inside into your mouth, like this, fhwuuflp!"]

Well, you're probably better qualified to speculate, but I note you
append "at higher energies" -- if the Enterprise *was* experiencing
sufficiently higher energies, wouldn't the ship have been vaporized?

For that matter, wouldn't those high-energy particles quickly decay
into known, lower-energy particles?

>
>> A universal translator, as depicted in Trek, *certainly* violates
>> casuality - it knows how to map verbal expressions to concepts even
>> when the species has just been met and it has never been exposed to
>> the expressions before!
>
>I haven't studied the Trek translator, but I can imagine doing a brain
>scan of something and deducing from the connections how the language
>works.  I think I'd look for math-type thinking structures to start
>with, or perhaps go from the optic processors out.

>It's a rather god-like ability, granted, but not (it seems to me)
>physically impossible.

But it implies a certain level of *telepathy*.  If they can scan the
brain's language-center, and automagically deduce miscellaneous
cortical connections, they should be able to get a rough idea of what
the individual is thinking even when *not* talking.

Which is why DDB's example of the Arisians is more internally
consistent - the Lens allows regular telepathy as well as language
translation.

I don't have a problem with the general idea of the universal
translator, assuming magical tech, only with the inconsistent way it's
been shown to work on "Trek".

>  Plus it often doesn't work on creatures not like us, right? 

I can only recall 2 episodes where it wasn't working quite
transparantly - one was the moderatly famous "Darmok", and the other
was an episode of DS9 where they met a new species (from the Gamma
quadrant?), where it was taking longer than usual to kick in.

And while it was emotionally powerful, "Darmok" made no sense
linguistically.

>
>> And warping space has been tentatively identified as theoretically
>> possible by real-world science; there's a paper out there somewhere.
>> Now, granted, it isn't a *whole* lot like Trek's warp drive, but
>> the concept itself is not completely absurd.
>
>I'm not qualified to speculate on this, but my gut tells me that FTL
>travel isn't possible in this universe.
>

Well, I'm not qualified to speculate either, but that doesn't stop me
>from occasional pararectal ideation on the subject.  But not at this
point in time, I think.