On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Matthew Hunter wrote: > On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 02:36:44PM -0800, Philip Hart <philiph at SLAC.Stanford.EDU> wrote: > > On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Chris Olson - SunPS wrote: > > > Philip Hart wrote: > > > > On Thu, 4 Dec 2003, Johne Cook wrote: > > > > > (It's not his politics that worry me, it's his religion, > > > > Same thing. > > > Excuse me? Are you stating that politics and religion > > > are the same thing, or that they are in OSC's case? > > Well, from my perspective as a physicist, an atheist, and a reductionist > > (all one thing in my opinion), all belief is the same stuff - hooey. > > So that is your belief, then? The subordinate clause means, "in my professional opinion". But as you perhaps imply, this sort of dicussion leads to the impossibility of knowledge, not a productive place to end up, as I said. > > > But that's not a productive argument. Rather I should say that it seems > > to me people have a set of mostly emotional viewpoints on what's right, > > and that they effectively practice their religion and politics > > accordingly. > > E.g., it seems to me that consistent Christians should be > > communists, but of course aren't. > > This is a dangerous game here; you're telling people how you > think they should behave based on your understanding of their > beliefs, when you have already admitted you neither understand > nor respect their beliefs, and then judging them based on their > adherence to your standard of conduct derived from your imperfect > understanding of their beliefs. I wrote "consistent", not "moral". As far as I know, you don't know anything about my degree of understanding of particular religions. I think it's often the case in our society that non-believers are often more familiar with religious doctrines than the bulk of adherents. To be clear, I respect believers - Christians, Easter Bunnyists, astrologers, Cubs fans, whatever. > I don't see any support for communism in Christianity unless you > are coming into the question with a preconception that communism > is a moral and desirable form of government/economics and other > forms are neither moral nor desirable. I can't see Christ approving of Donald Trump (maybe Bill Gates), and I can't see a marketplace in a Christian monastery or heaven, and I don't see a lot of wiggle-room in If thou wilt be perfect, go sell what thou hast and give to the poor and thou shalt have treasure in Heaven and come follow Me. I don't think communism is a workable form of govt - but I'm not a Christian.