>>>>>>>>>In a message dated 12/5/2003 10:43:43 AM US Mountain Standard Time, pulmon at comcast.net writes: I suspect the fundamental problem is the miscegenation of radical right wing politics with radical Christian beliefs in the current incarnation of our government. Historically neither the conservative nor the liberal philosophies derive their positions from religion. One could argue that there is more theology in liberalism, in that it explicitly denies the concept of directed reincarnation (its fundamental concept is the creation of the society where an individual can be born into any situation and have an equal chance of success). <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<< >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I see your point and agree to a large extent, but on the other hand, what one expects of government and gives it the power to do to people is based to a large extent on one's fundamental beliefs about human nature. If one takes the Rousseau-like position that humans in a state of nature are inherently good, one does not have the same enthusiasm for government's ability to repress as someone who believes humanity is inherently evil, or at least fallen. (One has also of course never raised a two-year-old.) Communism (Marxist-Leninist variety) was based in part on the notion that humans could be perfected, and one was therefore entitled to do whatever it took to achieve that perfection, including mass murder. One can understand Chesterton's remark (I think he was quoting a Jesuit) that original sin is the only cheerful view of human nature. tal