--- Philip Hart <philiph at slac.stanford.edu> wrote: > > > On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Sean Whalen wrote: > > > Illista's plan was to get Allistar as Noima's > lover > > and then get rid of Tortaalik through a crisis he > > couldn't handle. Allistar would be able to deal > with > > it, marry Noima, and continue the Phoenix Reign. > > I don't know of any textev for this. As I believe I > explained earlier > in this thread, it was perfectly sensible for the > conspirators to seek > influence at court and to increase that influence by > weakening T, none > of which depends on his death. They're not trying to kill Tortaalik. The plot to kill him occurred later (though it involved some of the same people), was plotted by his sister instead of Illista and is a separate issue. Allistar wants to get rid of him by forcing him to step down (in favor of Noima or Allistar). The reason Tortaalik ascended to the throne was Cherova couldn't handle the crisis caused when Kathana killed the Marquis of the Pepperfields. The Phoenix Emperor was supposed to have more political skills to handle the mess than the Athyra Empress. However, since Tortaalik's wife was friends with Lanmarea and Kathana and convinced Tortaalik to give Lanmarea the duty of arresting Kathana nothing happened to solve the problem. The static state of events was troubling to friends of the e'Lanya line and enemies of Kathana (who wanted her arrested), friends of Kathana (who wanted her safe) and other Dragon lines who wanted to be given control of the Pepperfields. Illista meant to save Kathana to gain favor with the Consort for Allistar (so she told Khaavren to do it). This would hopefully cause trouble for Tortaalik since he wasn't able to accomplish the very goal he came to the throne for. Illista hoped Tortaalik would resign and Noima or her husband would gain the Orb. Later, affairs changed. Seodra and her group realized Kathana wanted to turn herself in. They wanted Tortaalik to give them influence and the Pepperfields in exchange for bringing in Kathana (they knew where she was and planned to capture her at the right time, which was why Khaavren's plans threw theirs into such a mess). The Warlord convinced Allistar that with Kathana coming to face the law (with other actions she and Khaavren took part in fulfilling all the Emperor's goals and wants at this time with no help from either group) his plan wouldn't work. The two groups came into an alliance together. I don't know the exact deal Illista and Seodra worked out but Illista tried to get Khaavren to kill his friends and keep their deeds unknown (which to me seems almost impossible at this time). Presumably she would allow the Warlord's line to take credit for capturing Kathana and be appointed to control the Pepperfields (and Sandyhome at the end of a war) while Seodra would use her new influence to help Allistar gain the attentions of the Consort (or something of equal value). Perhaps she thought the war to take Sandyhome would drain enough resources or make Tortaalik unpopular enough that he had to get outside help and/or agree to step down for the good of the Empire. > > It seems unlikely that it would > be meant to keep him > > comatose and rule as regent (especially in > Dragaera where someone who > > controls the Orb is a necessity). > > Who knows? Note for example a recent example in our > history - President > Reagan was grievously wounded in his first term of > office, and even his > supporters agree that the stress and, possibly, > oxygen deprivation led to > a loss of acuity and control of the reins of power. But the Orb functions to prevent natural disasters, act against the Jenoine and other external threats and is a storehouse of knowledge and perhaps other magical powers necessary for the smooth functioning of the Empire. A comatose man couldn't make use of it. Assuming multiple Emperors per reign, this is when another Phoenix should claim the Orb and expect success. > > > Maybe the presence of a hunk of Phoenix stone > disturbs the psychic or > > > sorceral ambiance enough for an adept to notice > and become curious. > > > > Rereading, the goblets had been specially > prepared to be immune to > > the Orb's abilities but not Gyorg's. This may > mean his sense of smell > > or psychic senses, but it doesn't seem likely. > > It may seem unlikely to you. > > > > > Preparing goblets with black and gold > phoenixstone seems almost > > impossible. > > The Serioli managed to make a chain. Hell, they may > have made the > goblets. It's not certain Spellbreaker is made of Phoenix Stone. One of the difficulties is having a world where fine craftsmanship is done with sorcery and one material is immune to sorcery. The Serioli probably could use some form of magic in manipulating Phoenix Stone, but it would be a small amount to have both materials within the space of a goblet and cover them with a white material. > > In _Phoenix_ the Orb detected the invisible area > created by Aibyn's > > phoenixstone. > > In _Phoenix_ the Empress finds Aibynn "psychically > blank." She may well > have been curious about a friend of Vlad's who he > thought might be an > assassin. We have no indication of an Orb warning or > that Z didn't try > to scan him out of curiosity and failed. What does the Orb do all day? If it's not constantly scanning for magic how would the presence of a huge amount of sorcerous power even be known to it? I think it's constantly checking for threats to the Empress. > > If the goblets just blocked the area around them > the poison would be > > detectable as soon as it left the goblets (and > into the Emperor). What > > would the Orb normally do when it detected poison > nearby? Even if it > > just informed and took no action others could cast > spells to get rid of > > the poison. The Orb probably just destroys the > poison (or else the > > Emperor would be extremely vulnerable to Elder > Sorcery that did nothing > > but shoot a poisoned arrow at him). > > If you're going to posit a new magical > "Orb-dampening effect" then all > bets are off - hiding the object in the room would > be sufficient. I > suspect the emperor is as safe from ES-powered > poisoned arrows as he is > from plain-old arrows. Also note that there are > two-step poisons that, > ingested in bulk, would be sufficient to cause > irreperable damage before > a sorcerer could be summoned - remember this is > pre-Interregnum. > > Also note that you seem to be arguing against the > idea of the plot. I don't know exactly what you mean. I've always thought that the Goblets were powered by some ES that made the poison that was in the wine in the Goblets undetectable by the Orb as long as the Goblets were around. This would give time for the Emperor to drink >from the Goblets during one of his long meals, have the poison in the drink enter his body and cause damage. They hoped the Emperor would drink a lot of wine and stay near the Goblets he was drinking from for a while. If the Goblets or the Emperor left the other, hopefully they used a poison that acted quickly enough to cause too much damage to be repaired. The problems I mentioned are meant to argue against your theory that the Goblets are made of two kinds of Phoenix Stone. The problems are that it would be difficult to make, the field that they create doesn't affect Elder Sorcery the same way as it does Imperial Sorcery so its exact effects on the Orb are uncertain (Aliera's spell and the Orb could both break through to Greenaere), and as soon as the poison left the area of the goblet it would be detectable (and therefore since the Orb presumably destroys any poison near or in the Emperor the plot would be foiled at this time). Also, it is more probable that a spell specifically designed against the Orb would not foil Gyorg but foil the Orb than Phoenix Stone would. I do believe the Emperor is safe from arrows and ES-powered arrows. I mentioned poisoned arrows because you suggested that the Goblets were just made of Phoenix Stone. This would mean that the poison would be detectable as soon as it left the Goblets (or within the Goblets if they didn't use enough Phoenix Stone). I believe the Orb would then detect and destroy the poison. I support this by saying someone shooting an arrow at the Emperor should expect to have it and the poison destroyed by the Orb. I mentioned arrows powered by Elder Sorcery to describe some threat that used magic not from the Orb that had to be actively countered by the Orb. If the Orb couldn't prevent poison from the mouth of the Emperor reaching his stomach and then spreading and killing him then magic poison arrows could be pretty deadly. I mentioned these problems because they don't need to be considered if the Goblets have a specific concealment spell instead of being made of Phoenix Stone. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html