Dragaera

Issola, Dragon, J Whedon, and Chandler's The Long Goodbye

Tue Mar 23 18:01:02 PST 2004

--- Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- Jim Millen <J.Millen-99 at student.lboro.ac.uk>
> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Jerry Friedman
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Spoilers for _Dragon_...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ...is this considered necessary, by the way?...
> 
> I think so.  Some people may join the list without
> having read
> all the books.

Alot of the lists I have been on have a rule that
spoiler space is only in effect for a certain period
of time after a book's release.  A typical time period
is two months.  I would suggest something like this
would be reasonable for us as well if everyone is
feeling that we need some kind of guideline.
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ...wasn't sure, but thought I'd best preserve
> space...
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ...that should do it.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
<snip description of A, M, and StY
knock-down-drag-out>
> > 
> > Aliera and StY commence duelling.  Vlad contacts
> Morrolan, asks him to
> > teleport in,
> 
> But why, and why not ask him *not* to bring
> Blackwand (or to leave
> it sheathed)?
> 
I think it's because Vlad had every intention of
Blackwand making physical contact with the sword that
StY stole at this time.  He knew what Fornia was
expecting to happen to the sword because he had Daymar
mindprobe him on the battlefield, but at that time he
didn't want Pathfinder to be revealed because he was
afraid that Fornia or one of his minions would end up
with it.  In typical Vlad fashion, once he found out
who actually got the sword after the war was over, he
just figure "ah, screw it -- let the dragonlords worry
about it."  Later, when StY started bugging him about
trading A for Kieron's sword, he finally decided it
was time to find out what was up with that stolen
sword for sure.  A and StY starting a fight in his
living room was a good opportunity since he needed M
to help break things up before they destroyed his flat
anyway.

> > After some period of time - almost certainly only
> minutes, if that -
> > Morrolan arrives on the scene.  This is going on
> the deduction that they
> > can't have been fighting for that long, as there
> is still intact
> > furniture at the end of it. <g>
> 
> Why does Morrolan show up so obediently?
>
I believe Vlad makes a comment at some point about M
"knowing when it is a time for action" or something
like that.  I assume that this is also the case here. 
We've seen this happen before (I'm thinking when V was
trying to stop Norather from leaving Castle Black to
hunt Jhereg) -- V yells psionically for M to show up
somewhere and help him out and M does it.  I assume it
is because M knows V doesn't just go around randomly
yelling "fire" in a crowded theater -- in other words,
he knows that V wouldn't phrase things urgently if
things weren't urgent. 


> Makes sense, but how *does* one person with a sword
> break up a
> swordfight?  Beating down their weapons?  Magic?  I
> guess he doesn't
> have to actually cross blades with StY if he uses
> Blackwand's magic.

So far, I have the theory that M started to duel with
StY and, when Blackwand touched StY's sword, it caused
Pathfinder to be revealed.  I can easily buy that this
caused some kind of magical shock and knocked StY
silly because she happened to be holding Pathfinder.



> > StY's lack of success despite possession of
> Pathfinder could be
> > explained by shock at the blade's revealing or by
> Aliera and Morrolan
> > simply being better than her.
> 
> They'd have to be a *lot* better.
> 

>From V's many descriptions, I have to guess that
either M or A alone would be at least as good as StY. 
Both of them on her at once would be twice as good as
StY.  All in all, though, I think it is a moot point. 
I don't think StY ever got a chance to use Pathfinder
on anyone because she was knocked out by some kind of
magical shock when Pathfinder was revealed.

> > More interestingly, it could be that
> > Pathfinder wanted to come to Aliera, and did
> something of its own accord
> > to arrange things that way.  Maybe?
> 
> This makes more sense to me.

This could fit easily with the idea that Pathfinder's
appearance is actually what put StY out.  Maybe
Pathfinder zapped her because StY was the wrong person
to be wielding Pathfinder.

> 
> > Do you think it would be shameful for StY to have
> been defeated in such
> > a way as to leave her alive, and not even
> particularly harmed?  I kind
> > of imagine that for a warrior in the Dragaeran
> culture, that might be
> > rather embarassing, but I could be wrong. 
> 
> I'm not clear on that--in fact I'm not clear at all
> on what Dragons
> consider shameful.  Wouldn't "shameful" include
> whacking somebody on
> the head while one's cousin is dueling with her or
> disarming her?

Good question.  I'm pretty sure that ganging up on her
wouldn't be shameful in and of itself.  Morrolan,
Aliera, and Norather all ganged up on the Sorceress in
Green and killed her, but nobody seemed to think that
was dishonorable except for maybe V.  Whacking her on
the head with a blunt object is open to argument,
though. 
I would tend to think that losing a fight without
being seriously injured is likely to be shameful.  I
am thinking about how Dragaerans always duel to the
death over things, even small insults.  It seems that
if it were honorable to lose a fight in any way that
did not result in death, most people would duel until
first blood, someone is clearly outmatched and
surrenders, or something else less lethal.

Amy


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