Dragaera

Issola, Dragon, J Whedon, and Chandler's The Long Goodbye

Thu Mar 25 16:22:26 PST 2004

Thanks to you and others for answering my questions.

--- wamydia <wamydia23 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- Jerry Friedman <jerry_friedman at yahoo.com> wrote:
> > 
> > --- Jim Millen <J.Millen-99 at student.lboro.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Jerry Friedman
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Spoilers for _Dragon_...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ...is this considered necessary, by the way?...
> > 
> > I think so.  Some people may join the list without
> > having read
> > all the books.
...

> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> <snip description of A, M, and StY
> knock-down-drag-out>
> > > 
> > > Aliera and StY commence duelling.  Vlad contacts
> > Morrolan, asks him to
> > > teleport in,
> > 
> > But why, and why not ask him *not* to bring
> > Blackwand (or to leave
> > it sheathed)?
> > 
> I think it's because Vlad had every intention of
> Blackwand making physical contact with the sword that
> StY stole at this time.  He knew what Fornia was
> expecting to happen to the sword because he had Daymar
> mindprobe him on the battlefield, but at that time he
> didn't want Pathfinder to be revealed because he was
> afraid that Fornia or one of his minions would end up
> with it.  In typical Vlad fashion, once he found out
> who actually got the sword after the war was over, he
> just figure "ah, screw it -- let the dragonlords worry
> about it."

Okay, I took a glance at _Dragon_ last night and I'm with you to
this point.

> Later, when StY started bugging him about
> trading A for Kieron's sword, he finally decided it
> was time to find out what was up with that stolen
> sword for sure.  A and StY starting a fight in his
> living room was a good opportunity since he needed M
> to help break things up before they destroyed his flat
> anyway.

Maybe I'm just surprised, in view of this happening just
after _Yendi_ and his feelings about StY in the interludes of
_Dragon_, that he would take the chance that young Sethra
would get the sword, quite possibly killing Aliera or Morrolan
or both in horrible fashion.  Cawti definitely prefers Aliera
to StY at this point.

Vlad could improve Aliera's and Morrolan's odds greatly by
telling either of them what he learned from Daymar's mind-probe.
Even easier would be advising Aliera to make the trade
with StY and then fence a little with Morrolan or Sethra Lavode,
but I can see that might not change anything--Aliera might still
prefer to fight.
...

> > Why does Morrolan show up so obediently?
> >
> I believe Vlad makes a comment at some point about M
> "knowing when it is a time for action" or something
> like that.  I assume that this is also the case here. 
> We've seen this happen before (I'm thinking when V was
> trying to stop Norather from leaving Castle Black to
> hunt Jhereg) -- V yells psionically for M to show up
> somewhere and help him out and M does it.  I assume it
> is because M knows V doesn't just go around randomly
> yelling "fire" in a crowded theater -- in other words,
> he knows that V wouldn't phrase things urgently if
> things weren't urgent.

If I trusted someone like that, I'd want him to be a little more
forthcoming about the tactical situation, like that a Great
Weapon might suddenly appear.  Of course, no one has ever called
me up and told me to get my ass over there with my sharpest kitchen
knife.
 
> > Makes sense, but how *does* one person with a sword
> > break up a
> > swordfight?  Beating down their weapons?  Magic?  I
> > guess he doesn't
> > have to actually cross blades with StY if he uses
> > Blackwand's magic.
> 
> So far, I have the theory that M started to duel with
> StY and, when Blackwand touched StY's sword, it caused
> Pathfinder to be revealed.

Or when it shot black fire at StY, as Jose Marquez speculated it
would do.

> I can easily buy that this
> caused some kind of magical shock and knocked StY
> silly because she happened to be holding Pathfinder.

This seems to be a popular theory.

> > > StY's lack of success despite possession of
> > Pathfinder could be
> > > explained by shock at the blade's revealing or by
> > Aliera and Morrolan
> > > simply being better than her.
> > 
> > They'd have to be a *lot* better.
> > 
> 
> From V's many descriptions, I have to guess that
> either M or A alone would be at least as good as StY. 
> Both of them on her at once would be twice as good as
> StY.

That does make sense.

> All in all, though, I think it is a moot point. 
> I don't think StY ever got a chance to use Pathfinder
> on anyone because she was knocked out by some kind of
> magical shock when Pathfinder was revealed.
> 
> > > More interestingly, it could be that
> > > Pathfinder wanted to come to Aliera, and did
> > something of its own accord
> > > to arrange things that way.  Maybe?
> > 
> > This makes more sense to me.
> 
> This could fit easily with the idea that Pathfinder's
> appearance is actually what put StY out.  Maybe
> Pathfinder zapped her because StY was the wrong person
> to be wielding Pathfinder.

It would have been nice for Vlad to mention it, or maybe Aliera--
and then why would Morrolan have taking credit for saving Aliera?
(In fact why does he do that anyway?  She would have been a lot
safer if he hadn't shown up.)

> > > Do you think it would be shameful for StY to have
> > been defeated in such
> > > a way as to leave her alive, and not even
> > particularly harmed?  I kind
> > > of imagine that for a warrior in the Dragaeran
> > culture, that might be
> > > rather embarassing, but I could be wrong. 
> > 
> > I'm not clear on that--in fact I'm not clear at all
> > on what Dragons
> > consider shameful.  Wouldn't "shameful" include
> > whacking somebody on
> > the head while one's cousin is dueling with her or
> > disarming her?
> 
> Good question.  I'm pretty sure that ganging up on her
> wouldn't be shameful in and of itself.  Morrolan,
> Aliera, and Norather all ganged up on the Sorceress in
> Green and killed her, but nobody seemed to think that
> was dishonorable except for maybe V.

Right, and I notice Aliera doesn't seem to mind Cawti's preparing
to stab StY in the back.  So I withdraw my question.

> Whacking her on
> the head with a blunt object is open to argument,
> though. 
> I would tend to think that losing a fight without
> being seriously injured is likely to be shameful.  I
> am thinking about how Dragaerans always duel to the
> death over things, even small insults.  It seems that
> if it were honorable to lose a fight in any way that
> did not result in death, most people would duel until
> first blood, someone is clearly outmatched and
> surrenders, or something else less lethal.

At least among the aristocracy.  Teckla gang up on one of their
number, and Orca are happy to beat up Easterners.  We haven't yet
seen a Chreotha duel.  (Or maybe we have and couldn't tell.)

Jerry Friedman

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