Dragaera

Grammar (was: Poker)

Kenneth Gorelick pulmon at comcast.net
Tue Apr 6 14:18:38 PDT 2004

On Apr 6, 2004, at 2:48 PM, Philip Hart wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, 6 Apr 2004, Greg Morrow wrote:
>
>> Philip Hart wondered aloud to the group:
>>> ) - last night I had to break it to some otherwise very fluent 
>>> friends
>>> that "a colleague of us" isn't English.  Why is "ours" necessary 
>>> here?
>>
>> "of X" is here used in a possessive sense and hence X takes the 
>> possessive
>> case--it's not just "of ours", it's "of mine", "of yours", and "of 
>> Joe's".
>>
>> In a strongly-cased language like Latin or German, it'd be the 
>> genitive
>> case, but English is only very very weakly cased.  For example, "of 
>> X" used
>> to indicate origin or content would also be genitive case in many 
>> cased
>> languages, but in English it's plain: "lady of Spain".  (In the rare
>> construction that sticks a pronoun in there, the pronoun would be in
>> objective case.)
>
> So why
>    the army's strength was sufficient
> but not
>    the strength of the army's was sufficient
>
> Presumably because nouns became less inflected through laziness?
>
>
> Latin doesn't have an "of" if I remember correctly - and there were 
> only a
> couple of verbs that took the genitive.  Ok, and there were some 
> genitives
> that seemed to be just fancy ways of talking so Cicero wouldn't sound
> anything like the plebes.
>

Let's keep it clean here. All this talk of genitives could get Ashcroft 
worried about us...