wouldn't the orb act as a repository of knowledge and culture as far as the empire is concerned? every citizen is mentally linked to it, so who is to say the orb doesn't act on societal cohesion on some sublevel? andy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Sallade" <zardoz at weirdness.com> To: <dragaera at dragaera.info> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 5:23 PM Subject: Re: Name similarities and pure speculation > At 12:26 PM 7/22/04, jeff G. wrote: > >On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Mark A Mandel wrote: > > > > > In point of fact, after >200,000 years no name or word or language would > > > be recognizable. > > > >Given the correction factor of perhaps x30, and the continuous control of > >territory by one culture, I don't know if I agree. For example, when > >someone refers to "breaking the stick" from the 6th cycle, is she > >translating? Could someone important who lived the entire time (and was > >much at court) single-handedly stabilize the language? > > > ><cough> sethra </cough> But could she? Remember the interlude in SL, it > >shows how her tates and personality have changed over time, I would > >imagine her command of the language would as well. Otherwise, she would > >occasionally make a comment that would be out of place (time), and given > >how rarely she speaks, it would have been noted. Still, the question of > >the effect of Sethra Lavode on Dragearean history is a good one, although > >the answer would require a bit of space. (Perhaps another 17 novels, if > >Steven ever loses intrest in Vlad?) > > Names once had meaning and there are many books on what names are supposed > to mean, but no one really cares. Well... maybe the parents care at the > time they name their child, but after that... <shrug> Names no longer have > religious significance (except in some tribal cultures). There is very > little to do with religion in the The Dragaera books, except that > witchcraft is tied in closely with the Eastern concept of religion. (what > that concept is we can barley deduce that someone, at some time in the past > summoned Verra). So I buy that there are common names that the Dragaerans > use form other races. > > Expressions like "breaking the stick" are much like our "pig in a poke." > They have a meaning long after the original intent is forgotten. > > (Please correct me on the next two points if I'm wrong, Mr. Mandel) > As far as the language goes, drift creates accents first, dialects > second, and new languages third. Even with a common dictionary English > speakers have managed to create three distinct dialectic groups: British, > American, and International. None of which has achieved status as a > separate language. This has taken about 500 years. This would be equivalent > to about 15000 Dragaeran years. > In Dragaeran, Brust's "translations" provide clues that there are > certainly accents and, in the cases of the separate island nations, > possibly enough linguistic drift to create dialectic changes. Vlad > obviously understands the people in Greenaere. The jokes from Aibynn don't > seem to go over his head, so there is still enough cultural similarity to > keep abstracts consistent. > > Let's look at the general population size. With 200,000 or 400,000 > (depending on who you believe, Verra or Vlad) on Greenaere on an island > roughly 3300 square miles or roughly 90 people per square mile. It is > considered a rural, agrarian nation. > > (Now we hit the generalities. The numbers that follow are a bit arbitrary > and probably fall quite short of the actual numbers.) > Think about the size of the armies Morrolan and Fornia raise. Not > all of the Dragons will be in on that fight because of familial > obligations that preclude siding with either of the leaders, so possibly > one quarter of the House was involved. Each army was numbered in the tens > of thousands so let's call it 50,000 each. That's 400,000 in the House. > Times 17 Houses (yeah the Phoenix have a grand population of One, but it > should average out) makes 6.8 million. And that's the extremely > conservative estimate. This would indicate the Empire is the dominant > culture, at least in the immediate vicinity of that continent. > Documentation is the one good way to preserve language. Complete > records in a standard writing system helps to influence how a language > changes over time. Granted, even in American English there are words that > are no longer used and are considered archaic, but that could be because of > rampant undereducation and language misuse by the popular media (a debate > for some other time). Now who controls the documentary evidence in the > Empire? the Lyorns. Kragar gets almost all of his information from the > records that they store. I'm sure that there must be some sort of research > facility like a library, but I'm also sure that there must be a great deal > that is meant to be disseminated only to members of the House the records > pertain to (hence the buttering-up and bribery). So I think it would be > that House that keeps the drift to a minimum. > >