--- Chris Olson - SunPS <Chrisf.Olson at Sun.COM> wrote: > Jerry Friedman wrote: > > I almost agree with you and Mark. My impression was, "Marx and > > Engels have proved that feudalism leads through a dialectic > > process to capitalism, eventually industrial capitalism, which in > > turn leads to a socialist revolution and the dictatorship of the > > proletariat. Dragaera is still too feudal and not capitalistic or > > industrial enough to be ready for socialism." Here I'm attempting > > a Marxist point of view, which I assume is Steven's but isn't mine. > > I always thought what Verra was trying to say was: > In a world dominated and controlled by the Great Cycle, > this great big stone tablet that even we Gods don't > fully understand, the ideas of Marx and Engels simply won't work. > How can you have a socialist revolution when, once the next > Cycle comes around, it moves right back to feudalism? > Not only that, but the mass of "Noble Houses" have > sorcery and Elder Sorcery, and this throws the > calculations off even further. A bummer for Kelly's Gang, > but them's the facts. Anyone have the text, since _Phoenix_ isn't on book search? I thought Verra made a time reference--Dragaera isn't ready *yet*. > The only way to really bring about the future Kelly desires > is to destroy the Great Cycle. Other ways: * A slight modification so the next Teckla Reign can be indefinitely long, not just 17^4 years. * A new, indefinitely long Interregnum. * As happened in Europe, the monarchy becomes constitutional--with a more socialist constitution than any in Europe. (The Orb makes such a monarchy harder, but not, I think, impossible.) > Hmm... Maybe that's the Last Contract? Kelly hires Vlad > to assassinate the Great Cycle! Another All-Expenses Paid > trip to the Land of the Dead, with chisel and hammer in > hand.... > > Okay, maybe not. <grin> I've taken that idea seriously since somewhere around _Phoenix_ (probably on one of my re-reads). The main objection, of course, is that from things Paarfi says, Norathar's reign lasts well beyond Vlad's expected lifetime. Ways around that: * Norathar is a constitutional monarch. * Norathar is not reigning at all, and Paarfi is being stubbornly conservative and refusing to recognize that he's living in a Marxist state. * Vlad travels through time, like Devera, to a point after Paarfi. * Vlad lives longer than expected, like Laszlo or whatsername (Arra?). * Son of Vlad. The following is a spoiler for _Issola_: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Killing the gods, with Godslayer, might be a very good start on destroying the Cycle. And who knows whether G. might be just the hammer and chisel you need? Jerry Friedman __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com