> -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Turkel [mailto:zizban at adelphia.net] > Sent: 12 December 2004 16:04 > To: Dragaera ((E-mail)) > Subject: Re: Kushiel's Dart > > On Dec 12, 2004, at 10:57 AM, Howard Brazee wrote: > > My wife didn't have problems with either of these. Assassination is > > one > > thing. And even pain. I love the opening scene in the movie > > _Lawrence of > > Arabia_ where Lawrence explains the "trick" in letting a > match go out > > against his fingers. (the trick is not to mind). But associating > > pain > > with love doesn't work with me and messes up my enjoyment > of the books. I would point out that it's not associating pain with love, but rather with sexual desire. Phedre certainly doesn't love the vast majority of her patrons, and actively dislikes them in many cases, but her... peculiarity means that she enjoys the various activities nonetheless. This isn't just a point of pedantry - the distinction between love and lust becomes quite an important issue later in the series. > > I wonder what other turn-offs readers have similar to this, > causing us > > to > > not like otherwise enjoyable books. It is interesting what various people find distasteful. There was a scene in one of David Wingrove's Chung Kao(sp?) books of a sexual nature that made me give up the book in disgust, but I wasn't too keen on the world or writing anyway, so can't blame it entirely on that scene. Other than that I can't remember anything that's made me stop reading. Oh, maybe some Piers Anthony, but again that's not so much a disgust reaction but more general dissatisfaction with the quality of reading in general. Personally I didn't find the S&M stuff in Kushiel's Dart/Chosen/Avatar particularly off putting - perhaps this is because I can't really think of it in terms of reality? It's not something I can really relate to or appreciate in any way, so I tended to pretty much ignore it unless it directly involved the plot. I find reading "Teckla" to be more unpleasant than the Kushiel books, simply because I can imagine being in Vlad's situation (Well, without all the witchcraft and stuff, obviously!) but can't possibly imagine the same with Phedre. Which, all in all, I'm quite glad about. Oh, and I'm not at all implying that "Teckla" is a bad book, I don't think it is. It's just painful. > I agree. When it got to the pain/love thing I just tossed it. > The world > was very well constructed and the culture was interesting but > otherwise...meh The blatant S&M scenes are fewer in frequency later in the book and much less in the second book, if this is any encouragement to read further. Cheers, Jim --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.806 / Virus Database: 548 - Release Date: 05/12/2004