Dragaera

Defender always wins? (Was: Re: on contradictions and such)

Tue Feb 8 07:23:30 PST 2005

> Anyone on the list study aikido or something similar?  For those who don't,
> aikido is based around the idea that you can use your attacker's energy
> (resources, whatever) against them instead of initiating your own attacks. 
> A question I asked my sensei once when we were studying katana technique
> (one of the roots of aikido is how to survive in battlefield chaos when
> you've lost your sword for some reason) was, "assuming two opponents of
> equal skill, is there ever an adavantage to attacking first?" 

I don't study aikido, but my father does.  :)  I think we can delve into
martial arts philosophy fairly quickly, and although interesting personally,
might not be good overall list fodder.

Other martial arts (I know Shotokan in particular) have the concept
of "sen no sen" and "go no sen".  Not being a Japanese speaker it
is my understanding that that are typically incorrectly interpreted
by novices as "offensive" and "defensive".  The correct phrasing is
pruportedly to "seize the initiative" and to "seize the intiative later".

In general, I think what Steven is talking about is absolutely correct.
It is much better to fight a defensive battle that you have initiated.
It sounds counterintuitive, but is not.  What it allows is for you 
to be prepared for you opponent to attack you in a way of your choosing,
and thus in a way you to believe to be advantageous to you.  This is
typically done by preparing defensively and then goading the opponent
into attacking you.  Sethra says almost exactly this.  She also says
that the opponent can know this is your plan, but thinks they can
overcome your perceived advantages.  It is on this, that wars hinge.

> Unfortunately he didn't answer my question - he was informally facing off
> against another student since he'd previously been demonstrating something,
> and he quickly (and gently) attacked the student, who of course didn't
> respond, as we do not have any kind of freeform sparring training with
> bokken.  Opponent not of equal skill.

IMO this is one of the critical problems with Aikido.  Because it lacks
offense, when training, it is virtually impossible for a practitioner
to provide a competent offense for their opponent to defend against.  I
don't see a good answer to this, because it violates the fundamental
aspects of aikido that I admire.  The only thing that comes to mind is
to pair up with a different martial art to allow competent attacks to
be defended against.

-Jot
-- 
Jot Powers 	<books at bofh.com> 		http://www.bofh.com/books/
"I'm upping my standards, so up yours!" 
	-Pat Paulsen (1927-1997), Presidential Campaign Slogan