"----- Original Message ----- From: "Joshua Kronengold" <mneme at io.com> Donna writes: >even if they're not being biased, the aggressor is the person judges >subconsciously watch during an exchange. Interesting. Traditionally, in fencing (pre-electric), specific judges are assigned to watch specific fencers, and cannot call points on the other fencer, so there may be less of this effect." This is definitely true. I did think that was one of the cooler parts about tournament fencing. One judge watches the back of one fencer, another judge watches the front, and then two judges for the other fencer and one in the middle. The judge in the middle watches the fencers and the other judges, and that's how they determine who strikes first. As a corner judge, if your guy gets poked, you raise your hand. It wouldn't work quite as well in a karate tournament because the competitors get to move around so much. In tournament fencing, they're stuck moving back and forth on a line, so even a novice can corner judge pretty easily. The main judge has to know what he's doing, though. But due to the fact that the judges are only watching one person or the other, the aggressor doesn't always take the point. There's a bit of a strategy to working the judges in tournament karate. There are either three or five judges (corner judges and a center judge), and they can all move around to see better. The corner judges work the perimeter and the center judge controls things and is in the ring with the fighters. They can all call a point on either opponent. Even if you get hit hard enough to move you back two feet, they can't call a point unless they see a weapon hitting a target, just like in fencing. But the center judge can't get as close to the fighters in karate as he can in fencing - in fencing they're going to stay on their line, but in sparring you might get run over if you're too close. So in karate, it's always possible to obscure your targets from a majority of the judges by turning your back to the center judge. Because he's further away, he can't see the targets on the backside as well, so he can't call those points. This reduces the number of targets your opponent can score on. You can punch someone in the solar plexus five times, or kick them in the groin and double them over, but if they have their back to the center judge, you ain't winning. I personally loathe tournament sparring - but it's fun to watch.