thank you all so much for your help.i think i will just trash it and sell it for parts. the guy who towed it the first time it died on the way to work sells abandoned vehicles and vehicles repoed by the DEA... he happens to have one of each the moment. a honda civic they runs great with no rust... all it needs is an ignition key ;o) again, thank you all! -- Sethra "I am not an adventurer by choice but by fate." -- Vincent Van Gogh (1853-90), Dutch postimpressionist painter