At 10:59 AM 12/5/2005 -0700, you wrote: >umm so what you are telling us is that you are ok with being the guy in >line to see Revenge of the Sith who tells a 7 year old that Aniken is Darth >Vader and that his son in gonna be Luke Skywalker. No, I wouldn't spoil a movie to a kid that's in line to see it. But remember that part of my opinion on this issue is the venue where the spoiler discussion is taking place. I'd get pissed if someone gave away the ending of any movie to people about to see it. However, I wouldn't have a problem with someone not putting spoiler warnings on "Aniken is Darth Vader" comments posted to a Star Wars discussion group. I think part of someone's participation in a discussion group is the implicit understanding that they're fairly familiar with the material. If I met someone who hadn't read the Vlad books yet, I wouldn't tell them the Orca or Issloa spoilers, but I'd also tell them that they should probably read the books before discussing them on this mailing list. Aside, I don't think that's the best counter-example as Lucas use the Darth Vader image as Ani's shadow in the posters for Episode I. and the wikipedia article on Aniken/Darth doesn't feel any need to spoiler protect it <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darth_vader>. Your Lord of the Rings example below is better, ad I comment more on that. >I don't think that the fact that I have known a spoiler for 10 years makes >it any less a spoiler for the audience yet to read the various pieces out >there. Heck at this point I'd think it's safe to assume that there were >children being born when Orca was released that may, in 6 years or so, get >to that book. I think it'd be nice for us to leave them the magic that we >all came to on our own. True, but again, it's the venue. I'm not talking about going out and shouting the Orca spoiler from the rooftops, I'm talking about not spoiler-protecting it in a place where people do nothing but talk about these books. And if your PoV is valid, why are we only protecting the Orca and Issola spoilers. Most posts to this list contain some spoiler elements to some of the books, whether it's a reference to Adron's Disaster, Cawti and Vlad's relationship, or the recent discussion about Sethra the Younger's motives in Yendi (which are a significant spoiler to what's going on in that book if you haven't read it). Who polices the importance of spoilers and says that these are the one's we have to protect and these other ones's aren't. Isn't everything on this list a spoiler to one degree or another. >Or one more view on it - Had someone spoiled the Hobbit or the Lord of the >Rings for you before you read them? Did you know Gandalf would die, or that >he'd get better? I didn't and I am damn thankful that there was not, when I >first read those books, (books that were 30 years old at that point) someone >at my side, or in my e-mail telling me about pivotal plot points. A better example. However, yes, I did know that Gandalf died and came back before I read the trilogy. It didn't ruin my enjoyment of them, and I wasn't particularly bitter at having known it. [Interestingly, my wife read the books after seeing the first film and while she did not know that Gandalf was coming back, it didn't surprise her at all as she'd read enough other fantasy fiction to recognize the conventions of the genre]. But again, I wouldn't spoil LotR to someone at the movie theater or in a bookstore thinking about picking them up, but I'd have no problem with people not putting a spoiler warning on Gandalf's death & rebirth in a LotR discussion group. Now if I hadn't read LotR yet, how would you feel about having just "spoiled" it for me by mentioning that in a non-Tolkein group? To be fair, I'll mention a place where I did get annoyed at this. I had the ending of The Sixth Sense spoiled for me by one of the comic-reporters on The Daily Show less than a year after the movie's release. I still enjoyed the film, but felt that it was inappropriate of them do reveal the big spoiler of the movie in a public forum so soon after it's release. And another example of where I think this is silly. I remember having this same discussion 13 years ago on the rec.tv.prisoner newsgroup when people were putting spoiler warning about the final episode of The Prisoner, which had then aired 25 years previously, on a newsgroup where people did nothing but discuss that show. >Just my views, >Rion And mine are mine. It's not that I don't want to protect good reveals / spoilers from novice eyes, it's just that I think this mailing list isn't meant for people who haven't read most of the books. Charley >-----Original Message----- >From: dragaera-bounces at dragaera.info >[mailto:dragaera-bounces at dragaera.info]On Behalf Of Charles Sumner >Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 10:16 AM >To: dragaera at dragaera.info >Subject: The Orca Spoiler - Time to let it go? (was Re: Proof Mario is >Alive?...) > > >At 11:35 AM 12/5/2005 -0500, you wrote: > >>>[Spoiler] that indicate she believes Mario is still current and active > > > >>Shouldn't we "spoiler" these bits? I don't think everyone on the list has > >>read all of the books. > > > >Isn't the mailing list the final stage of total Brust addiction? How can > >you have considered getting on this list until you have read all of the > >books and are impatiently waiting for the next? > >Next month will be the 10th anniversary of the release of Orca and I think >it might be time to let that particular spoiler go. The Issola spoiler is >4 years old this month (3 years if you want to count from the paperback >publication) so I don't mind hanging on to that one, for now. > >Yes, I do know that there are some people on this list who haven't read all >of the books, but I still think it's a bit silly for us to still be using a >spoiler-warning for a book that's 10 years old on a list designed to >discuss these books. If this was a general-purpose, SF mailing-list, then >sure. But the Orca spoiler is central to many of the discussion on this >list, as I suspect the Issola spoiler will be when Dzur comes out. > >Can we put something in the sign-up email that says something to the effect >of, this mailing is for the discussion of Steven Brust's Dragaera novels, >be warned that you might see spoilers if you haven't read them all yet. > > >Charley Sumner > >An open mind is one thing, letting geese run around in there is completely >different. > >