On 12/13/05, Jon_Lincicum at stream.com <Jon_Lincicum at stream.com> wrote: > > Davdi Silverrock <davdisil at gmail.com> wrote: > > >I don't think the populations of Greenaere or Elde Island count, > >because they seem to have rejected the Cycle. > > I'm not sure if this is really a fair statement. Certainly, the residents > of Greenaere and Elde reject the *Empire*, but do we know their > feelings as to the *Cycle*? Hmm. Precisely because they crossbreed without any restriction at all? The whole point of maintaining House purity is because that's the only way the the Cycle can really be maintained. > >However, do not forget that there is an entire House made up entirely > >of crossbreeds, which House is in fact also ruled by the Cycle. > > Not to mention that full-bred members of other houses can join the > Jhereg if they really want to (given some compelling motivation, see > Norathar). But the whole *point* of Norathar joining the Jhereg was that, as far as she knew (and whoever raised her knew), she *was* a crossbreed. > How many full-bread Phoenix are there in the Jhereg right now > that only need to be re-admitted to the House in order to count? Full-bread Phoenix? Mmmm, toast. Sorry. However, to answer your question: During the Interregnum, I think we can be pretty certain that there were no full-breed Phoenix anywhere besides Zerika. I mean, someone would have *said*, "What about all those Phoenix that didn't have a phoenix fly past at their birth? Don't they count, even a little?" Now that the Interregnum is over, perhaps some have been born to Jhereg unions, and will be revealed as they grow older. Who can say? > >I've always been skeptical about the whole "phoenix flying over the > >birth of a true Phoenix" business; it sounds too much like something > >Vlad misunderstood. Perhaps the reason he misunderstood is because > >no-one wants to be blunt and explain that the reason that there are > >(or rather, were) so few true Phoenix, is that Phoenix, being often > >decadent, slept around with absolutely anybody, and didn't even bother > >trying to prevent pregnancies, and therefore many of their poor > >bastard crossbreed offspring had no other choice than to become > >Jhereg. But that also explains how the House could be reborn, and the > >rather gnomic suggestions about what could speculatively be recessives > >that the Lords of Judgement were mumbling about. It might well prove > >to be interesting that at some point that out of the corruption of the > >Jhereg arises the Phoenix again. > > I've noticed that every time Vlad thinks the Dragaerans are being > metaphorical, he seems to be mistaken. Can you cite an example? However, I am quite willing to modify my notion, since it is very simple to do so: Let us say that the phoenix (bird) is indeed attracted by the birth of a pure-breed Phoenix. Then it obviously follows that all those births by Phoenix that are *not* heralded by the phoenix are not pure-breed Phoenix. Decadent little scenario that occured to me: "I can't believe that you did it with an entire Jhegaala squareball team!" "I can't believe that you were so occupied with watching us - not to mention your own frolics with the captain of the team - that you didn't even take a turn with your own wife!" "Oh, well. I suppose we ship the Jhegaala-Phoenix brat off to a Jhereg orphanage - along with all the others." Another thought: Illista to Khaavren: "You could have had several days of pleasure with me before I cast you aside" What if the reason that Khaavren was so angry at Piro for suggesting a cross-house marriage was because Illista and Khaavren *did* have several days (or at least, moments) of pleasure, which in turn led to a Phoenix-Tiassa bastard running around somewhere? > > > Hm. I think that's a rationalization worthy of Speculation:Phoenix. > > Indeed. Hurry up and write it so I can add my counterpoint in... ;-) Soon, soon. > >Eh, give the problem to the Iorich to chew on for a while. I'm > >willing to bet that they would take so long to hash it out that the > >House of the Phoenix would be reborn before they settle the matter. > > Making thousands of Imperials for some lucky bunch of advocates, no doubt. Although it also occurs to me that Zerika, not being stupid, might draft a will or create some sort of legal trust in order to forestall such wranglings - since the advocates would no doubt take their fees from the holdings if any contention were to occur. > > >They could always query the Orb as to how House Phoenix *used* to do it. > > Used to do it when? Used to do it before the House was mostly wiped out, I meant. > So far as we know, Zerika the First was the last reborn Phoenix > (before Zerika IV), so if the House did indeed die off and get > reborn, then that all happened before the Orb came along, so > it wouldn't remember what they did before. No, no. Look, all they need to do is select one Phoenix out of however many there are as the Heir. There must have been some criteria the House used (the least decadent of their number, perhaps? The most decadent? The prettiest? The best poker player?), so the Orb would surely recall what those criteria *were*.