Dragaera

Lonesome Oct (was: Re: the next vlad book?)

Sat Jul 20 18:52:26 PDT 2002

On Sat, Jul 20, 2002 at 12:13:25AM -0400, Starshadw at aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 7/19/2002 3:10:43 PM Mountain Daylight Time, mneme at io.com 
> writes:
> 
> > However, symbols -also- matter -- the whole point of Jack having
> > wrong wand was that -despite- his intentions, by the rules of the game
> > (the rules being a big ugly symbol), he was on the opening side
> > because he was holding the opening wand.  
> 
> Not necessarily.  I don't think that simply by holding the wrong instrument, 
> one's side in the battle changes - unless one KNOWS one is holding the right 
> instrument.  The opening side was winning because Jack's willpower was being 

Um.  Y'all seem to have interpreted things differently than I did.  I never
thought the losing side was supposed to be destroyed because of the rules, as
some punishment or cosmic bookkeeping.  I figured that the process of victory,
of overcoming the opposing energy, had as a side effect the destruction of
those wielding the opposing energy.

Through Snuff's intervention Jack suddenly stopped opposing the closing wand
and was taken out of the loop, so the portal got shut nice and easy without
messy backlash and backwash.

Had Snuff not intervened Jill would probably have been destroyed by the
effects of Jack overcoming her and opening the gate.

> I still don't agree with your theory that simply be holding one tool over 
> another, a person's side in the battle changes.  It's not the TOOL that's 
> doing the work - it's the WILLPOWER of the person.
 
By intent Jack was closer and Jill opener.
By effect Jack was opener and Jill closer.
For the purposes of being killed, I suggest that 'side' doesn't matter, no
matter how you define it; all that matters is whether you get hit by the
magical bulldozer of victory.

> > unkillable -- he doesn't expect to die if he loses to begin with, and
> > his (known) survival makes it clear that he's an exception to this
> > "rule".
> Again, not necessarily.  Maybe he's survived this long because whenever he's 
> managed to make it to one of these little shin-digs, the closers always win.  

Logic says the closers have always won before, and I'm almost certain the
textev says this as well.  At some point Grey says to Snuff "This is your
first time, of course" and Snuff says "No", 'knowing what I was giving away by
that.'  I.e. if you've been to these before and survived, you were a closer.

If the openers had ever won the world would be rather different.  That's the
point...

-xx- Damien X-)