Mark A Mandel <mam at theworld.com> writes: > [David Dyer-Bennet] > #> #I definitely don't figure color comparisons verbally. I only have the > #> #"guy" list of color names (I think it's a 16-color palette); and then > #> #overlaid on top of it the ability from years of photography and design > #> #play the ability to say "too much red in that" or "needs a little more > #> #green". > #> # > #> #I have no idea how I do that; I certainly don't see images of the > #> #colors in my head. > > [MM] > #> So there's one example of non-verbal thought, right? > > [DDB again] > #Is that "thought"? I tend to reserve that word for verbal reasoning. > > I think this is where we came in: whether or not "thinking" can be done > without words. If you define it away, then (ISTM) you're opting out of > the discussion. > > When I visualize what would happen to the space in the car trunk if I > put THIS suitcase THERE, turned on its side, and then slid THAT box in > next to it in SUCH-AND-SUCH orientation and laid THAT bag on top of the > box, slipping it in under the overhang JUST SO... I'm *thinking*, by any > definition I care to use, but the content of my thinking is largely > visual, partly kinesthetic, and only slightly verbal, if at all. Would > you call that "non-verbal reasoning"? Why would you not call it > "thinking"? The color matching thing, I simply don't *know*. Too little of it takes place anywhere I can see it to have any idea how it's done, so I have no opinion if it's thought or what. By one definition everything taking place in the human head is thought, but I suspect that of being too broad to be useful. And I think if you can't justify your conclusion, that you haven't achieved "thought", or at least you can't *show* that you've achieved thought. A guess that happens to be right isn't "thought" as I understand it. -- David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b at dd-b.net / New TMDA anti-spam in test John Dyer-Bennet 1915-2002 Memorial Site http://john.dyer-bennet.net Book log: http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/Ouroboros/booknotes/ New Dragaera mailing lists, see http://dragaera.info