On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 01:46:12PM -0500, Sunny Han wrote: > Are there such things as practicing witches? Yes. Wiccans would be a good example (though by the technical definitions I give below, they would be mages, not witches). It might be useful for me to pull out some information from an anthropology class... we have several terms we can use here. Religion, witchcraft, sorcery, and magic (or magick, however you want to spell it) come to mind. For most fantasy fans, the latter three are roughly equivalent; if we want to discuss this subject as it occurs in the real world, then as an option we can use the anthropological definitions of the terms. The are a convenient way of sorting belief systems, though they may not (and generally don't) accurately reflect the personal nomenclature of people who ascribe to such systems of thought (with the exception of religions). We have a spectrum of belief systems. At one end is the complete or near-complete lack of empirical evidence in the systems; at the other is a reliance on said evidence. So if you have a lack of empirical evidence, you have the presence of 'faith'; these systems are labled as religions. Move across a notch on the spectrum: here is placed sorcery, and it includes all sorts of supersticions and luck-based beliefs. The idea behind sorcery is that anyone can do it - anyone can carry a rabbit's foot, anyone can blow on the dice before casting them, anyone can knock on wood. Some belief systems in this category include the existence of spirit-beings to whom one can appeal, or whom one can placate. When the resulting outcomes are favorable, they provide something in the way of evidence. Another notch: witchcraft. In this category, the power to affect things comes from within a person, and a typical facet of these systems is that only certain people can do it. Makes for interesting ways of dealing with misfortune: person A and person B don't like each other. Something bad happens to B, and they accuse A of cursing them. A publicly apologizes, claiming they didn't know they were cursing B. Everyone is happy. It also makes for self-fulfilling prophecies: if someone believes they've been cursed, then the psychological stress starts to impact their mental and physical health; this can lead to death if it goes unchecked. Nice big chunk of evidence for everyone else in the community. Opposite end: magick. Practicioners make use of what they see as causal relationships between ritual and results. It's sort of based on the idea that your thoughts can exert influence; if you order your thoughts in a certain way or pattern them by means of a ritual, your chances of achieving a desired result go up. Some magickal systems involve tapping into external power sources (some of which are believed to be provided by deities; this would be a mixture of faith and magick). Some internal effects can be explained to the satisfaction of the scientific community, simply because they still don't understand just how much the mind can affect the body, nor the exact mechanisms behind it. Hypnosis could be considered an example of this - it involves the patterning of subconscious thought towards a desired result, such as pain reduction, stress management, healing, etc. A lot of the 'internal' magick is geared towards mental growth and enlightenment, Cabbalistic Pathwalking would be an example. In regards to flashy external effects - fireballs, levitation, and the like - I've yet to see *anyone*, online or rl, who claimed to be able to do these things (well, I met one guy who claimed to have witnessed a shapeshifting. Based on his description of the group ritual, I suspect it was a mass hallucination brought on by a trance state). Most mages are going for the smaller, subtler effects - an extra boost to one's garden, for example. Then there's all sorts of new-age stuff; people who can supposedly see auras, psychics, etc. None of it has been proved or disproved either (well, a lot of folk who have predicted wars and the end of the world and such have been proven wrong). Something to consider: If I had the power of precognition or knew a way of scientifically proving that I could astrally travel, I wouldn't exactly go blurting this out to the world (though some who claim the former have done so. They make strange websites and tend to gather followers). I'm not farmiliar enough with Eastern philosophies and religions to say where they might fit or not fit. Though as an intersting aside - about two months ago I watched my aikido instructor break a chopstick in half with a piece of paper held edge-on. The concept behind it is extending one's ki (energy) into the paper... if you want to look at it from a standpoint of Western science, this is a good example of someone patterening their thoughts to achieve a desirable and highly improbable result. Hope that helps. Kat > I've heard all of the arguments > from scientists about how it's physically impossibile to make things happen > based strictly on desire. Are there any arguments fro it? I've read a book > "A Plague of Sorcerers" by a Mrs. Zambreno, Mary Frances, and I think that > defines my look on witchcraft... > > > Sunny