On Sat, 7 Sep 2002 FelixEisen at aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 9/6/2002 4:41:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, scs at di.org >writes: >trouble. In addition, remember that Fenario -- which is, I'm still >convinced, the Pepperfields (see postscript) -- is only one of many >different 'Easterner' lands. [snip] > >P.S. -- Pepperfields/Fenario. Different people, different >traditions, different names. Fenario was 'named' after Fenarr [snip] > Remember also that the pass between Faerie and Fenario is narrow >and difficult; this seems to be a prime sticking point for lots of >people, who point out that there is no such difficulty between the >Empire and the Pepperfields. > >Pardon my French, but bullshit. > >To these people, I refer you to the description of the passages into >the Pepperfields -- one where the amazingly crooked bridge is, where >many battles between the Empire and the Easterners have occurred, and >the other that is suggested by a comment about the 'direct climb' >which is apparently so steep and perilous it cannot be used by >horses. As well, the Pepperfields are wanted by Fenarr (and his army >of Easterners) simply to live in and farm, a political state that >Khaavren and the rest seem to be at ease with. Incidentally, I think the passage into the Empire was *much* easier in the millenia before Khaavren's time. There is reference to the inhabitants of Bengloarafurd being influenced by Easterner cuisine, and the Easterners fighting battles in the region (that is, on the *west* side of the mountain range, and west of the Pepperfields as well). >To sum up: the Fenarians consider themselves to be independent, but >have a 1,000 year old peace treaty with Faerie, enabling them to live >in comparative peace and prosperity. The Empire consider the >Pepperfields to be their own territory, albeit used by a group of >Easterners who haven't sworn alliegence to a noble -- but if they >were, they'd be under the dominion of that realm's Baron (or >whatever). [snip] >Fenario IS the Pepperfields, believed by both sides to be >owned by themselves, but 'under treaty' with the others. Regarding the this notion (Pepperfields is Fenario), I have gone through the Phoenix Guards skimming for references to the place and its size. Please note the following textev: All of the following quotes are from "The Phoenix Guards" PB edition: [Pel says:] pgs 114- 115: "the fief of Pepperfield lies in a small valley, between two impassible mountains, on the Eastern border of the Empire." Note the wording - a *small* valley, between two mountains (not a large plain between two mountain ranges, which is Fenario) [Aerich says:] pg 315: "Pepperfield lies to the north, and the southern tip of the domain touches directly on [...] the northernmost of Lord Adron's domains." According to the map in BP, the southern part of Fenario is forest and marshland. This doesn't match up to the mountainous region of Eastmanswatch. pg 316: "[...] the Eastern River, which, over the course of eons, had dug itself a passage in Mount Kieron, until it came to a green fertile plateau which was equally accessable from the east or the west, and was, over the thousands of miles that the Eastern Mountains stretch, one of only three or four places that gave any sort of easy access between the two civilizations [...]" Again, the reference is to a pass through the mountain range. [Shalte says:] pg 361: "[...] a small force of Easterners to temporarily inhabit a few hectares of useless fields [...]" A hectare is 10,000 square meters. You might build a nice- size castle on a "few hectares", but not a large city (such as the capital of Fenario, which is by the castle), and certainly not an entire country, with several cities and large fields to support the populace. [Crionofenarr says:] pg 366: "The re-taking of these lands which have been taken from us, and so nearly join my own [...]" Note that they *join* his own lands. This suggests that Fenario is seperate from Pepperfield even in Crionofenarr's own mind. [Crionofenarr says:] pg 371: "[...] we no longer wish this passage through the mountains to be in the hands of those who use it to steal our horses." Again, reference to the area simply as a passage through the mountains. All in all, I'd say the preponderance of evidence is in favor of Pepperfield being the small area to the west of Lake Fenarr on the BP map, or possibly *under* Lake Fenarr during Miklos' times. So there, too, anyway.