On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, chris cunningham wrote: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <pddb at demesne.com> >To: "David Silberstein" <davids at kithrup.com> >Cc: <dragaera at dragaera.info> >Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 12:04 PM >Subject: Re: funny the things you catch > > >> On Mon, Sep 23, 2002 at 04:32:49PM -0700, David Silberstein wrote: >> > On Mon, 23 Sep 2002 pddb at demesne.com wrote: >> > >> > >On Sat, Sep 21, 2002 at 03:26:52AM -0400, chris cunningham wrote: >> > >[snip] >> > > >> > >> wizards savn reads about in _the book of the seven wizards_ are the >> > >> scribblies, and/or other authors of mr. brust's acquaintance. [snippage] >> > Well, can you confirm that they are all current or former Scribblies, >> > or are there others in there as well? >> >> I find a very easy correlation for six; the remaining one is actually a >> bit of a puzzle. You know Steve is perfectly capable of throwing >> in a ringer. > >thanks. at first i thought the ringer was megan lindholm or jane yolen, not >knowing whether either might have been later/honorary scribblies. > >> > The list that Googling on rasfw has uncovered is: >> > >> > Steven Brust, Will Shetterly, Emma Bull, Kara Dalkey, Pamela Dean, >> > Nate Bucklin, and Patricia Wrede. > >nate bucklin! many thanks! had forgotten about him, and was wondering who >the third male wizard might be. > >> > Which does come to 7, I note. Unless I left someone out. Hmmm. >> >> There was a brief period before Will and Emma moved to L.A. >> when Raphael Carter was in the Scribblies. Until Will and Emma >> and I went to Las Vegas to deal with VISCOUNT, there waw a sense >> in which the last Scribblies meeting was a time when Raphael and >> I went over to Steven's house in Minneapolis to critique the >> manuscript of DRAGON. I provide this information partly for its >> obfuscatory aspect, since I can't recall how the timing of that >> works out with the passage in ATHYRA. At that point Pat and Nate >> had left the group and Kara was in Colorado, but this means really >> nothing in terms of the Book of the Seven Wizards, which is >> remarkably timeless. > >hmmm. i'm gonna stick to the original seven, for the nonce, >to preserve my already addled wits. [snippage] >so, here are my current ruminations and wild-assed guesses: > I'll throw in the exact verbage of the wizards' descriptions, and my own addenda or modified guesses. First: She Who Is Small finds the secrets of the present in the past; that when the past is known, it is the power of the mage to find Truth in Mystery; that thus is the latter transformed into the former. >i'm thinking this refers to one who knows her history, includes lots of >history in her writing, or perhaps uses allegory to mask observations on the >present in a historical or mythical setting...aha! thought that kara dalkey >had set some novels in japan, so i just now searched for a site on her to >verify this, and found a nice bio > http://www.lunacat.net/authors/author-dalkey.htm >which not only confirms the japanese-historical-fantasy thang, but >also mentions that she is vertically challenged. yes! More to the point, it also states that she majored in Anthropology. Definitely a "secrets of the present in the past" sort of thing. Second: She Who Is Tall says that the secret is in the song, and opens only to one who dares to sing. It is said that when she sings, the secret is plain to all who listen, but that it is hidden again when the song is past, and few are those who are blessed to hear the echoes of Truth in the Silence that follows. >emma bull. ms. dalkey's bio also mentioned that she had been a >bassist/singer, and i was afraid that i had misattributed ms. bull as >this wizard. but as ms. dalkey is small, and ms. bull seems tall, >and sings/sang as a flash girl, i'm going with ms. bull on this one. >also, this part of the description just seems to fit: "...the secret >is plain to all who listen, but that it is hidden again when the song >is past," This was my guess as well; it seems sort of obvious. Her book on music & magic, for those who haven't read it, is "War for the Oaks". http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0765300346 And the Flash Girls page is: http://www.player.org/pub/flash/flash.html Third: She Whose Hair Is Red wraps the secret ever tighter in skeins of words, so that it vanishes as if it never were, and in these layers of words the secret emerges, shining, so that it is hidden to those who look, yet revealed to those who take joy in the unfolding patterns and sounds of words. >reminds me of this description of paarfi's style, from _500 years >after_: "your reader is the one who doesn't rush on to see what >happens next, but relishes the way the sentences are formed." >pamela dean dyer-bennet is my guess here. Not my guess here - I think it's Patricia Wrede. Her hair looks sort of a dark reddish-brown in the photos I've seen. I am not sure what "wraps the secret ever tighter in skeins of words" refers to, but there you go. See below for who I think PDDB is, and why... Fourth: He Whose Eyes Are Green knows where the secret lies, for his eyes pierce every shadowy place; yet he no sooner finds the secret than he buries it anew. But it is said that in the burying the secret has changed, while that which was hidden walks the land ever after, waiting but for one to recognize it, and offer it refuge. >will shetterly. i have a love/hate relationship with his fiction. >have to read him again before i can say more than this. but i do >think this is he. and i feel fairly confident that i know who his >analogue is in _the sun, the moon, and the stars_. He *has* an analog in tStMatS? I had no idea. I'll have to re-read that. The picture I found suggested that his eyes are are a sort of light hazel, but that could just be the lighting or the resolution. I suppose they are sort of greenish, at the very least. The bit about "buries it anew" made me think of dogs buying bones, which in turn made me think of "Dogland", although that was published after "Athyra" (although WS was working on it quite a long time; possibly for long before "Athyra" was published). If you read one book by Will Shetterly, it absolutely must be Dogland. You can get in in a kids edition for cheap: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0765342332 Or with a more "adult" cover for more than twice the price: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0312866054 The second link above also has a sample chapter. Fifth: He Whose Hair Is Dark laughs at secrets, for his pleasure is in the search, not the discovery -- and the paths he follows in this search stem from whim, not from plan. Some say that in this way he reveals as many as another. >skzb Yup. In retrospective, I seem to remember a lot of times where he's said or implied that he just makes it all up as he goes along. Note also his preference for unreliable narrators. :-) Sixth: Of the Gentle One it is said that she sets down the order and method of all things, and that, in this way all hidden things may be found. To her, each detail is a signpost, and when each is placed in its own position, the outline of the secret will be laid bare for any who will look. >no idea. refers to the way in which she assembles her fiction, i >suppose? by process of elimination this should be patricia wrede, >and that's my guess I'm pretty sure that this is actually Pamela Dean, and if you had read "Juniper, Gentian & Rosemary", you'd have a better idea why I think this. That book (and also "Tam Lin", or so I understand, although that one is still on the to-read shelf) is just packed with allusions and quotes and hints that refer to riddles, which is what (I think) the bit about the details being signposts towards the outline of the secret means. Seventh: The Master of Rhyme still searches for the Way of the Wizards, for to him, this is the greatest Secret of all. Yet, as he searches, he lets fall Truths for all of those who come after, and in this he sees no miracle, for what is plain to one is a Secret to the next. He is often praised for this, but it is meaningless to him, for who among Men will rejoice in finding Truth that he has never thought hidden? >nate bucklin? having not written, or at least, not having been >published, iirc, he could be seen as still searching for the way. >and i seem to recall that he's a musician/filkster, aka a master of >rhyme. My guess as well, and for the same reasons. I haven't heard/read anything by him myself. <*shrug*>