At 01:04 PM 11/29/2002 -0800, definitely what wrote: >David Dyer-Bennet writes: > Religion, by definition, asserts the existence of a non-material > world. There's no evidence for such a thing being real. > >Of course it isn't real. Otherwise, it wouldn't be non-material. > >This is the main problem with trying to prove the existence or >non-existence of God; he isn't "real" in a physical sense. And yet, >the fact that people believe in God proves he does exist, just as the >people who do not believe in God prove that he doesn't. It's very >quantum. No, it proves the *idea* of God exists. Just as the *idea* of a flying reptile who is the familiar of an assassin exists. I think the distinction between, "exists as an idea" and "exists objectively" is very, very, important. The latter is what we mean by "reality."