Dragaera

Artificial release dates and online publishing

Mon Dec 16 19:17:00 PST 2002

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gametech" <voltronalpha at hotmail.com>
> Scott Ingram wrote:
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b at dd-b.net>
> >> Scott Ingram <singram at videotron.ca> writes:
> <snip>
> >
> > The quote I'm replying to is from Gametech, who, in past posts has
> > declared almost no respect for creator's rights at all.
> > You seem to be in favor of 'author's life plus N years'... Gametech is
> > altering his position from None to N years.
>
> I've got plenty of respect for a creator's rights (I'm a creator, most of
> the work I've done profesionaly would fall under the so called proctection
> of copyright), but I've got little to no respect for current copyright
laws.
> I don't equate a creators rights to be = to copyright

You say tomato...

Why don't you just say your definition of copyright differs from mine...
which is pretty obvious anyway.

> >> Quite a lot of interesting literary work has come out of the Sherlock
> >> Holmes universe, after the estate no longer controlled it.  A lot of
> >> literature is heavily based on Shakespeare, and couldn't be if he
> >> were still in copyright (consider Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are
> >> Dead). I think we agreed earlier that it's important things go into
> >> the pot, and the question is *when*.
> >
> > Agreed
>
> A lot of work is very relevant to the era it is produced in, if a creator
of
> the age of 35 dies at an average of 75 and then you tack on another 70
years
> you've got 110 years of copyright protection, Copyright not only outlives
> the author but all individuals that were exposed to the original work
> released in it's original era... okay +50 years after death you get 90
years
> still outliving all but the very youngest who were exposed... +30 years
well
> that's 70 and now at least there will be more survivors of the work (the
> youngest generations mind you) +10 years leaves it at 50 years of
protection
> which will outlive most people and is greater than 1/2 an average human
> lifespan. + anything to copyright after death is ridiculous, the argument
> earlier was brought up that basing copyright on terms of death would cause
> age discrimination *yet somehow you are suggesting it* I think copyright
> should be a finite fixed term, of a length that those who were most
> influenced (it being prevalent media in their era) have a decent
opportunity
> to utilize what goes into the pot.

They can still utilize it, they just have to get a license from the
author/creator.  What form that license takes: a percentage of proceeds or a
flat fee of one dollar, is up to the author.

As for age discrimination... My intention was that the author enjoy control
over his creation and be able to enjoy the proceeds from it. I can't control
how long authors live, nor can copyright laws extend life. Are life
sentences in prison age discriminatory? If so, my advice to all is to write
books in your youth and commit capital crimes in your senior years...
that'll show them ageists!

> > <snipped long quote>
> >
> >>> Why are you guys so against creators making money off of their
> >>> creations? Or hell, even just sitting on their creations and
> >>> refusing to let anyone make any money? (ie: the refusal Calvin and
> >>> Hobbes creator, Bill Watterson, to allow toys to be made of his
> >>> characters).
> >>
> >> Which "you guys" is this?  I feel like that's aimed at me, since I'm
> >> the previous-but-one poster here, but I don't feel this describes my
> >> position at all.
> >
> > No, it's aimed at Gametech, sorry if you got caught in the friendly
> > fire.
>
> Okay well If it's clearly aimed at me I may as well retort.
> I've got no issues with a creator making money off of their creation, that
> is I've got more of an issue with capitalistic society than with this one

Yeah, I sort of figured that.  I'd advise you to move to a communist society
but that would be rude... besides, they tend to very poor and have bad
television reception and even worse internet connectivity.

> branch of professions making money (which I'm complety part of). The
> publishers of media these days make more than the author does, an metric
> ass-ton more. The idea of changing copyright laws to a much shorter finite
> fixed length of time in your eyes 'robs' them, they are willing to fork
over
> in most cases over 80% of the profits made from their works just to the
> chain of distribution, reforming copyright doesn't even mean the creator
has
> to make *less* money - this shortend span of time that a creator can
collect
> money for a specific work can be compensated by a larger % of his sales
> (which they have willingly chosen to not take,  they *could* always self
> publish) after all it's th buisnesses that publish and own rights that are
> actually making the largest percentage of the money involved in a creators
> work, not the creator themselves.

I don't really see how limiting the duration of copyright leads to authors
getting a larger percentage of the 'take'.
You think publishers would be willing to give more to authors if they
thought the author was going to lose control of his work in a given amount
of time?  It seems to me that the opposite would be true.

Certainly the publishers could publish the books even more cheaply one the
author's rights expire.

I have no comment re: self publishing. That route is available no matter
what the copyright laws.

> Yeah.. But remember I've got little to no respect for a creators right so
> what should I care...err... NO!

Indeed.

> for most musicians excluding the occasional 'popular over more than two
> generations' 90% of the money they will make from any one album will be
made
> in the first 10 years, I haven't suggested 10 years as copyright
expiration
> but the point that any amount of copyright generously allows a creator
ample
> time to capitalize on their work.
>
My opinion differs from yours.
>
> Article I, Section 8, of the United States Constitution states that:
>
>
> "The Congress shall have Power ...
> To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts,
> by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors
> the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."
>
> I'd like to place some emphasis on 'limited' in the third line, this was
the
> initial idea of copyright, IP, Patents etc.
>
> I don't think they were expecting copyright to oulive anyone for very
long,
> if at all.
>
Well, patents expire within the lifetimes of authors, and lifetime +  50
*is* a limit.
>
> >>> Is the inability to publish works about hobbits named Frodo and
> >>> vampires named Sethra really inhibiting your creativity so much?
> >>>
> >>> You all seem so concerned that people may make money off their own
> >>> hard work. I've yet to see any CONCRETE examples of how this hurts
> >>> anyone..aside from those who wish to steal from creators and
> >>> benefiting off of their years of hard work and self-promotion.
> >>>
> >>> Why are you so afraid that people will prosper? This NOT a zero-sum
> >>> game!
> >>
> >> "Why are you so afraid" is one of those red flag phrases.  Your
> >> emotions have overcome your intellect, and we're probably not going
> >> to get anywhere with this discussion unless you calm down a little.
> >
> Arguing that you are using a 'red flaged' statement and therefore your
> argument is less valid is a 'green flag' than *your* argument is more
valid?
> What if you're colorblind?

Whahuh?