On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 05:47:59PM -0600, David Rodemaker <dar at horusinc.com> wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 02:47:11PM -0600, David Rodemaker > > <dar at horusinc.com> wrote: > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 12:08:03PM -0600, David Rodemaker > > > > <dar at horusinc.com> wrote: > > > > > Probably to one degree or another, but I think that mainly > > > > Steve wants to be > > > > > published. > > > > Norman of Gor didn't seem to have trouble. > > > Y'know that's sort of like discussing H.R. Eddison as being at > > the forefront > > > of modern fantasy writing, or Lord Dunsay. > > I didn't say he was good. I said he got published. > I was trying to say that he wasn't exactly a recent author, or a > particularly good example of the current market. Well, no, but he didn't get censored out of prudishness -- that was my point. > <SNIP> > > I confess that I have still been buying in HC up through the last > > new release -- but that was the first HC release, AND also the > > book that made me decide "not in hardcover". > Well, the publisher didn't decide to start putting her out in HC if her last > 4-5 novels have been steadily losing sales. I suspect that the huge amount > of sour grapes that come from Narcissus is that 'the boy scout' seems to be > leaving the series. I'm not convinced of this, but it's a possibility > <shrug>. The problem is that it takes a while for this kind of feedback to work its way back. Readers have a trust quotient -- Hamilton had been doing really well, then she started to lose it, but only gradually. People don't just give up on a series that easily -- hell, look at _As The Wheel Turns_. It takes 3-4 books sometimes to cement the downward trend. > > > Besides, Obsidian Butterfly had hardly any sex in it at all. <g> > > You did read the book, yes? Just because Anita wasn't having sex doesn't > > mean it's not there. > Without getting graphic- Discussing sex in Anita Blake without getting graphic? :P > Ok, where? We have the scene in the club (with the vamps/jaguars), and the > 'scene' at the end with the stepkids (a rather well done, though I hate even > saying that, rape scene) That's all I can remember off the top of my head. > There is a *great* deal of implied sexual D/s type stuff, along with the > revelation that Hamilton is a size queen (confirmed in the next novel AFAIC) > The shower scene at the end, the scene in the tavern 'show' that. We also > learn the fact that Olaf is one really sick b---tard, but never see him do > anything. I think there are more than that, though I count "implied" + "explicit" rather than separating them. I'll have to reread to provide more details, but the overall impression of OB was that the stuff with Edward was great, Anita - her dates was great, but many of the villians were still perverted and sex-obsessed. Overall, yes, OB was better than some of the books that came before, but then the next one was worse. So it's still not a trend. I just realized that I misspoke myself before -- OB was first in HC, and I liked it. NiC was the decision-point book for me. > > > I only just started reading the damn books this Yule, and was > > > suprised at them, but still liked them. As did my wife, as did the other > > > people who we threw them at. > > You haven't been following long enough to spot the flaws, then. > No, I just don't happen to agree that they are flaws. Would I prefer for her > to tone down the sex? Not really, or rather if the stories continue to be > good, I'm just as happy to read modern-fantasy/horror/romance/porn. You haven't seen how her last few books have Anita constantly growing in power to the point where she very nearly overpowers everything else? In every book she obtains a new mystical ability or pinnacle of strength? How she spends at least half of each book dealing with sexual subplots or merely in joyously pointless description of Anita's latest sex object? The adventure parts of the story are still reasonably well done, they are just shrinking steadily, while the sexual politics grow. I don't like sexual politics. I don't mind well-written sex, which Hamilton isn't writing, but even well-written sex isn't enough to fill one-third of a bloody book. Especially when repetitively described gore fills the other third and I'm reading for that last small fraction. > The major plot point from the last half of the series, which is pretty > obvious if you read them back to back, is that Anita is leaving her humanity > behind, she's as nasty or nastier than most of the monsters out there, and > moving on to becoming a Power in her own right. It's a similar theme that > Hamilton explores in the Gentry books. Yes, I realize the theme. I like the storyline. I just don't like the way it's being handled, for a number of reasons, some relating to sex and some to just bad storytelling. It's unnecessary, gratuitiously graphic, and most damning of all, repetitive. -- Matthew Hunter (matthew at infodancer.org) Public Key: http://matthew.infodancer.org/public_key.txt Homepage: http://matthew.infodancer.org/index.jsp Politics: http://www.triggerfinger.org/index.jsp