Alexx S Kay wondered aloud: >> No. They were imported from Toril (and, probably, originally from Oerth), >> where they were called "wemics". MoF, MMII (1st). > >I'm presuming you're speaking from knowledge of the ur-source gaming >world? I'd be interested in more details. OTOH, details from that >source are non-canonical until/unless confirmed by actual textev. In, oh, 1981 or thereabouts, TSR introduced a line of AD&D (Advanced Dungeons & Dragons) trading cards. One of the selling points was that the trading cards were the first appearance of a couple of monsters--the hybsil, a sort of deer-centaur, and the wemic, a sort of lion-centaur. Wemics were plain-dwelling hunters, as you'd expect. In game terms, they were a fair bit tougher than centaurs, but not as tough as, say, trolls. The wemic was included in the first edition AD&D Monster Manual II (1983), and adapted to subsequent versions of the game in the 2nd edition Monstrous Manual and the 3rd Edition Monsters of Faerun. At the time of 1st edition AD&D, the default game setting was the world of Greyhawk, taking place on a planet called "Oerth". It is thus presumed, although I don't have any direct evidence, that wemics were native to Greyhawk, along with generic AD&D critters like centaurs, bugbears, and so on, and critters that became more specifically associated with Oerth, like norkers. At the time of 2nd edition AD&D, the default game setting had more or less become the Forgotten Realms, taking place on the continent of "Faerun" on a planet called "Toril". The first textev that I have for a specific association of wemics with Toril is that they appeared in the Forgotten Realms Monstrous Compendium (1991) prior to being collected in the Monstrous Manual. It was later reiterated that they were being identified specifically with Toril when they appeared in the 3rd edition Monsters of Faerun. So, that's their history in AD&D. Much of the Taltos books can be read through an AD&D lens--Vlad is clearly an assassin, a character class in 1st edition AD&D, for example. Dragaerans are elves that are Tolkienesque in height, but are otherwise 1st ed. AD&D elves, with 2,000 year lifespans (not immortal), and (in Jhereg particularly), being multiclassed fighter/magic-users. Discussions of revivification are exactly what I'd expect from an SF-y writer asking the question "what if 'raise dead' spells were common?" So when I read Morrolan and Vlad encountering cat-centaurs on the way to Deathgate, I see an adventuring party encountering a pack of wemics. That sequence, including getting the token for the god and then the following encounter with the giant jhereg, reads to me like someone remembering the gaming session where their characters journeyed to Deathgate. It is true that there is not much textev in Taltos for this equation. Wemics are reasonably fast, but not especially so, and cat-centaurs are notably fast. Cat-centaurs males aren't said to be maned, as I recall, but that's the sort of detail you might suppress if you were throwing some camo on their origin. Similarly, calling them "cat-centaurs" when you've invented names like dzur, tiassa, and athyra is curious, unless you're used to calling them something else that you can't use. So that's what I got. Not a lot from textev, really. But jumping from "Steven Brust is a gamer" to "cat-centaurs are wemics" is pretty straightforward, and virtually inevitable if he was a 1st edition AD&D gamer. -- "Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God."--Jefferson mailto:Dr.Elmo at whiterose.org http://www.whiterose.org/dr.elmo/blog/