On Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 11:46:41PM -0700, Philip Hart <philiph at SLAC.Stanford.EDU> wrote: > On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, Matthew Hunter wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 15, 2003 at 10:53:14PM -0700, Philip Hart <philiph at SLAC.Stanford.EDU> wrote: > > > On Sat, 16 Aug 2003, Matthew Hunter wrote: > > > > ... > > > > normal experience with a Great Weapon. In particular we know > > > > that Pathfinder was concealed in one way, such that it was > > > > rendered less efficious and perhaps in some way less active. > > > > Thus we have two examples from which to generalize, which indeed > > > > upon this list is in fact two more than required. > > > We don't know much about Pathfinder pre-Aliera, but it should be noted > > > that Baritt got a mountain named after him, being suspiciously powerful > > > (see _Dragon_). > > IIRC, it was speculated by the characters that Baritt may not > > have known he had a Great Weapon. Even if he did, it strikes me > > that if anything could cause a Great Weapon to return to a > > quiescent state, the death of it's wielder would certainly > > qualify. > My point was that PF was active enough for B to hold off an army/defy the > Empire all by himself. B being assassinated isn't consistent with him > being bonded with PF, it's true, but he isn't an idiot either. Morrolan was assassinated while bonded. Carrying a GW is not a get-out-of-death-free card. Presumably you still need to be revivifiable. > > > This point is rather a sore one for me - it seems to me > > > he should have had more visible effects in the Vladiad and Paarfiad. > > Vlad would have no way to know much about Baritt -- he doesn't > > travel in those circles. Paarfi has said little, but then there > > are many subjects and events concerning which he has said little. > > Note the little nitpick about the second Jhereg-Dragon war in > > PotD. > Vlad knows something about history. And he's curious. And he has a > personal grudge with the guy. And he's buddies with a bunch of > chatty Dragons, one of whom worships B in a way that is hardly consistent > with a low-profile kind of guy. And his memory has been fucked with in some respect relevant to that campaign. In addition, Vlad's interaction consists of little more than "I don't like him. I will arrange for him to die." He didn't settle down and research the guy. > > > > none of them have made any special note of their weaponry. In > > > > particular, we do not know what became of that blade. > > > We know that Adron received it. Adron would notice he was holding a GW, > > > or a potential GW. I suspect that he wouldn't have needed to blast the > > > Orb if he had a GW, and certainly Sethra would have noticed if he had one > > > (presumably he wouldn't have left it at home) therefore... > > ... success or failure in his attempt; their powers seem to be > > orthogonal to sorcery (Elder or otherwise), rather than > > complementary. > There are many counterexamples. I beg to differ. We have seen Blackwand produce some pretty fireworks but we have little insight into how it has done so, or indeed whether it might have been Morrolan doing so himself in some of those instances. > > > On the subject, I would like to once again assert that Morrolan's taking > > > Blackwand into the Paths, when he fully expects to be staying, is an > > > annoying flaw in _Taltos_, which if anyone can explain away I'd be > > > grateful. > > I see several possibilities, of which one or more may be > > sufficient: > > 1) Morrolan didn't think of it (*very* likely given his attitude > > in LoCB). > That's fine, but S would have insisted he be responsible. See point 2. > > 2) Sethra knew Vlad could get him out. > She couldn't. Vlad nearly kills himself with his spell, and barely thinks > to do it. She gave him the vial. We know she has access to prophetic methods. There's no way to know WHY she gave it to him, if not for that specific purpose, without her telling us; until she does, it must remain a possibility. > > 3) The Gods would see that the weapon made its way to some useful > > soul. > I agree on this point, but I think the logistics wouldn't be as simple as > you present it, and who knows when the J will show up? We've already seen that the scale on which the Jenoine usually act is fairly large; Issola takes place years and years after the last known Jenoine threat ("I can't leave Dzur Mountain right now") and Sethra still comments that it is too soon to expect another attempt. > > I confess that I am still puzzled as to why Aliera's soul was > > sufficiently valuable to be retrieved from the Paths by such > > extreme and unprecedently measures. > This seems explicable - she's one of the handful of leading souls from the > dawn of the Empire. Being the Dragon Heir doesn't matter much, surely, > but perhaps being Sethra's friend (and representing a rare failure) does. Sufficiently so to risk Morrolan AND Vlad? I remain unconvinced. > > > Also on the subject, in _Issola_, when M and A are kidnapped, BW and PF > > > come along for the ride, though presumably there was no physical contact - > > > the J could have grabbed them when they were both in the shower or the > > > sack, say, if it mattered. A GW is like a shadow, Enclouding be damned. > > They also came fully clothed, you'll note. This is often a > > convenient aspect of fictional means of teleportation. ;) > I think they didn't come clothed. I think they told Vlad that if he > mentioned the truth they'd filet him. Note the Jenoine provided a chamber > pot - nice touch on their part. While this is a terribly amusing mental image, they would likely have said the same thing about the presence of the chamberpot. Worse, IIRC, their weapons are sheathed -- Morrolan draws Blackwand at one point. And Vlad would definitely have reacted very strongly to both Pathfinder and Blackwand, unsheathed, in his immediate vicinity. Still, it's interesting that the subject matter is... ah... carefully avoided in Vlad's commentary. -- Matthew Hunter (matthew at infodancer.org) Public Key: http://matthew.infodancer.org/public_key.txt Homepage: http://matthew.infodancer.org/index.jsp Politics: http://www.triggerfinger.org/index.jsp