> > On Tue, 18 Nov 2003, Philip Hart wrote: > > > I am not sure what the distinction might be between having a noble > > title, and being considered a noble, and actually being a noble. > > Yo, Aerich, field this one, would you? While I'm not Aerich, I'll point out that Keiron, Sethra, and anyone else who was around *before* the Empire began was, for lack of a better word, a commoner. Which only makes sense; if nobles must be citizens of the Empire, then they can't have been nobles before the Empire. On this vein, it would be assumed that Sethra, like Kieron, was born common and became noble with the formation of the Empire. > I'm thinking Sethra doesn't consider herself as a noble (or maybe even as > noble.) Maybe Paarfi thinks it's in his best interest to assign her a > title, but it doesn't fit my sense of reality. My understanding is that there are noble houses (16 of 'em) and non-noble houses (Tekla, plus the others that faded back before the empire). If Vlad *becomes* noble by joining the House of Jhereg, then if Sethra is of the House of Dragon (or Dzur...I know there's still some contention on this issue) then she is noble by default, because she belongs to a noble house. Similarly, if one is cast out of their house or is houseless, such as the offspring of mixed-houses, then one is not noble (that tossed in for the Sethra-is-a-vishivit faction) but comes from a noble family and may appear noble, but is not. Which does not particularly solve the present dilemma, but at least if we find/agree conclusively that Sethra is of one House or another, then we'll know that she is Noble. On that point, I would suggest looking at Morrolan's first visit to Dzur Mountain, and the subject there of taxes. Peter / Yaga > >