In a message dated 12/4/2003 5:05:15 PM US Mountain Standard Time, Chrisf.Olson at Sun.COM writes: >>"He is a lover of his country who rebukes and does >>not excuse its sins." - Frederick Douglass I'm reminded of something Winston Churchill once said (quote approximate): 'To say "My country, right or wrong!" is like saying, "My mother, drunk or sober!" If your mother is drunk, the thing to do is to sober her up!' tal