> I've often thought that the more useful distinction is between those who > believe that humans are a blank slate that is only civilized through external > influence (which must be applied), and those who believe humans are innately > good and only acquire evil tendencies due to pernicious external influences > (which they must be protected from). You've left out at least one observed set of people. Those that believe humans are innately *evil*, and must be carefully raised to suppress that inner nature. I do not agree with (or like) these people, but they do exist. Alexx Opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily those of my employers. alexx at carolingiaSPAMBL@CK.org http://www.panix.com/~alexx "Jaka has turned up in my life on three or four occasions, but always at a distance or in such a way that it was easy enough to avoid her. Which I do. Having drawn her umpty-ump times, I know the difference between an approximation and the genuine article. Stare at her for a few seconds. "Isn't that interesting? Right, that's enough staring," and back to whatever I was doing." -- Dave Sim, in correspondence with Alan Moore about _From Hell_