--- Philip Hart <philiph at slac.stanford.edu> wrote: > a very long post, starting with a lengthy digression which can be > skipped, > and a quite critical take on Issola, which can be skipped by deletion. > > spoilers, obviously. > > > > > > > > > > Those who like SKZB may well enjoy Raymond Chandler. In fact, Vlad may > be an indirect descendant of Philip Marlowe, Chandler's competent, > moral, > sensitive, snarky man in a crime-riddled landscape. I admire your restraint in saying "maybe". > > I recently reread _The Long Goodbye_, the last of the great Philip > Marlowe novels [snip as suggested] > But by the time of _TLG_, Chandler was losing his grasp. The novel is > too long, too flabby, and there's too much of the author working out > his personal problems. The effect is to give the reader (through > Marlowe, Chandler's fantasy-self) what he wants, not what he needs > (formulation stolen from Josh Whedon). [more snippage] > Some of the above thoughts helped crystallize some objections I have to > _Issola_. Let me hasten to add that I find it perhaps the most > enjoyable > installment of the Vladiad since _Jhereg_, but perhaps that's a question > of want/need. I'm surprised, since I'd say _Jhereg_ also fits your criticism-- almost everything happens, sometimes rather implausibly, to set up the final "Impressing" scene. > First, the initial scene between Vlad and Teldra. Her arrival at night > seems contrived to me. Perhaps no one could be found to reach Loiosh > (Cawwti comes to mind, of course) Though she may not be easily findable, and we don't know what Phoenix Stone does to her attempts to communicate with Loiosh. Has anyone but me wondered whether the Organization has tried or will try to find Vlad through Cawti? Say by taking her hostage and waiting for Vlad to hear about it? Of course, that could get some quite powerful people angry, not to mention a dubiously powerful goddess who's watching over Vlad's family. > or Vlad (Sethra in concert with Daymar, > or Verra) directly, It took considerable effort for them to get through to Elde in _Phoenix_. Lady Teldra's method may be easier and quicker. > and I'm not clear how Teldra gets Morrolan's windows > to work for her - but she seems to arrive in the wee hours to give Vlad > an excuse to spoon with her under a fur rug. > > Then there's a data dump from Sethra. I don't think any of this > information turns out to be of use to Vlad, and the critical bits could > have been brought out more naturally in the course of the novel. Later > we have a data dump on sorcery. I'm particularly uninterested in trellanstone and necrophia. I'd be happy for sorcery to do whatever Steven needs it to, unless we're going to get a thorough explanation. > Then there's the mission from the J. They give V a box to send him to > visit Verra - but no way to get back. And no way to confirm he was > successful. They may have ways of knowing. > And anyway, was he really supposed to be successful? A very good question. And by the way, did they know that Morganti dagger might be somehow connected to killing gods? > The > J's actions are so unfathomable, their inability to understand human > motivations so profound (except when it's convenient, such as being able > to predict Vlad would come to rescue Morrolan and Aliera), that they > become pure embodiments of plot. Very true. > Does Vlad have to spend time alone with > Teldra? Fine, let M/A go and trap V/T together. Does the trellanstone > have to be discovered? Fine, it's in the one room, Actually, I liked that. The Jenoine think the hominids are cute, so a simple concealment would work. Conceivably any method they use to hide it could be penetrated--the question is just what method is the Coolest. > discoverable with > Vlad's special tool (which the J show no interest in). Now that's really weird and not, in my opinion, cool. > Does Vlad need to > be one-armed for the finale? No problem. Does he need to be? I forget how. > Then there's the set of (shipper?) events - Sorry, but I have no idea what you mean by shipper, or what connection you see among these events. > V makes M/A blush, What you haven't mentioned is the theme of the book, which is what Howard Gardner calls "interpersonal intelligence". Vlad's outburst is an example of the unplanned but successful kind, and confirms what Teldra told him earlier about his skill (despite Loiosh's being a four-legged jhereg). > V leaves > Verra speechless, Verra disses Sethra then has to ask what her advice > was, More of the above, though less important, in my view. > Verra fights like a tag, Which tops a series of seeming inconsistencies: she tells M&A that they're traitors or fools for bringing her where the Jenoine can hurt her, but then she is not without power, they still fear her, Vlad didn't have to interpose his shoulder, but then all she can do is jump on a Jenoine as if it had borrowed her best dress. > the Necromancer has a heart-to-heart with V, V > has to tell Aliera to use Pathfinder, Not Cool in my opinion, either. > T has to tell M how to see the trellanstone, I didn't mind that so much. Morrolan can't be on top of everything, and Teldra gets to do something useful. > T feeds V by hand, and (to some extent) T encourages V to > shamelessly flirt with her. Nothing wrong with that, and both fit with the theme. > Then there are the persistent bits where I said, Huh? Isn't ... > > Then there's the battle scene, which to me feels phoned in. One problem is that Vlad is mostly a spectator, until we get to the good part. Another is that nobody accomplishes anything except for the dragon, who then proceeds to avoid accomplishing anything further. > To summarize, the novel purpose seems to be designed to advance the plot > of the Vladiad through data dumps, coincidences, and Jea ex machinas; to > hit certain emotional buttons; to give Teldra stage-time; and to get > Godslayer finished. It's the Cool Stuff theory. > Now, these things are not necessarily bad in > isolation, but in concert I feel I've been want-not-needed. However, we *needed* a joke that I remember from _The Joys of Yiddish_. > Contrast this with _Dragon_, a novel I didn't much enjoy on first > reading, > and still only admire. It has a series of excellent, vivid vignettes - > the first meeting with Daymar, the trip to see the Serioli, the business > with StY. The main thread of the plot is interesting, educational, and > plausible. The entire book is economical and integrated and paced > perfectly - when V has his discussions with the Dragons in his troop, > one feels that this is a good time for a conversation - during the V/T > conversations in _Issola_ one feels Time to undergo more bonding. I enjoy _Dragon_ a lot, partly for the reasons you describe. I also like the sabotage, the battles (though why aren't there more bows?) and the dreamwalk and the scene with the Necromancer. I didn't enjoy the postlude with StY, though. I guess Aliera's a Dragon, so it makes some kind of sense that she fights to bring about the exact bargain that she had just refused. But you have two people fighting with swords, and StY's will turn into a Great Weapon when confronted with a Great Weapon, which Vlad recently took great care to avoid. Then he summons somebody specifically with a Great Weapon. Then somehow StY ends up unconscious, but apparently not bleeding heavily or suffering from a collapsed lung or anything--how did Aliera and Morrolan do that with swords? And StY's sword does turn into Pathfinder--why doesn't it do her any good? I notice you like _Jhereg_ and _Issola_, but only admire _Dragon_. Maybe the Cool Stuff theory is working for you just the way it's supposed to. > At the end of _Dragon_, Vlad has learned and grown and placed parts of > his past into context, and so has the careful reader. Same in _Issola_ (except that I didn't put any of my past into context). > Most of the central books of the Vladiad are need, not want novels. > _Orca_ requires a lot of attention to detail, _Athyra_ starves us of > Vlad and Loiosh, _Teckla_ is painful. These, along with _Phoenix_ and _Dragon_, are my favorites. > In these novels, we see Vlad developing > in the face of new events - learning as he copes with life. In _Issola_ > I think we see development thrust upon him - he's Vlad/Teldra now, or > V/L/T instead of V/L; the reader goes along for the ride, fun stuff > happens, the plot moves forward. ... Vlad is often rude. (It's a plot point in _Yendi_, and not my favorite.) In _Issola_ I really noticed how appallingly he was acting, but I didn't realize how that was going to fit into the book until Lady Teldra made it clear in various ways and we saw how Vlad developed. Maybe I was dense, but that part worked just the way I'd have liked it to. Jerry Friedman __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam http://mail.yahoo.com