Dragaera

Issola, Dragon, J Whedon, and Chandler's The Long Goodbye

Fri Mar 19 16:10:29 PST 2004


On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Jerry Friedman wrote:

> --- Philip Hart <philiph at slac.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Those who like SKZB may well enjoy Raymond Chandler.  In fact, Vlad
> > may be an indirect descendant of Philip Marlowe, Chandler's competent,
> > moral, sensitive, snarky man in a crime-riddled landscape.
>
> I admire your restraint in saying "maybe".

We shouldn't overlook the degree to which Vlad differs from Marlowe.
Marlowe is older, sadder, more self-aware.  He's a loner.  He's willing
to eat awful food, though he's particular about his coffee.  He has no
ambition.  SKZB may know someone like Vlad (perhaps from shaving).




> > Some of the above thoughts helped crystallize some objections I have
> > to _Issola_.  Let me hasten to add that I find it perhaps the most
> > enjoyable installment of the Vladiad since _Jhereg_, but perhaps
> > that's a question of want/need.
>
> I'm surprised, since I'd say _Jhereg_ also fits your criticism--
> almost everything happens, sometimes rather implausibly, to set
> up the final "Impressing" scene.

I don't think so - if you accept the setup, which you must since it's the
first novel, I don't find _J_'s plot intrusive or especially improbable.



> > Then there's the mission from the J.  They give V a box to send him to
> > visit Verra - but no way to get back.  And no way to confirm he was
> > successful.
>
> They may have ways of knowing.

I can't think of any that wouldn't lead to further plot problems.


> > Does the trellanstone have to be discovered?  Fine, it's in the one
> > room,
>
> Actually, I liked that.  The Jenoine think the hominids are
> cute, so a simple concealment would work.  Conceivably any method
> they use to hide it could be penetrated--the question is just what
> method is the Coolest.

Put the damn rock in a different room.  Use a concealment not subject to
Spellbreaker.

I think kittens are cute.  I think kittens with rifles are cute -
http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2003/12/about_our_masco.html#more
for example.  I don't think kittens with sea-launched ballistic missles
are cute.  Sethra, M, and A are principal opponents of the J, if we can
trust S.  The J can't be dumb enough not to notice that the creatures they
find "cute" have been thwarting them for many thousands of years.



> Now that's really weird and not, in my opinion, cool.
>
> > Does Vlad need to
> > be one-armed for the finale?  No problem.
>
> Does he need to be?  I forget how.

So he can draw the dagger with Spellbreaker in hand, leading to the meld.



> > Then there's the set of (shipper?) events -
>
> Sorry, but I have no idea what you mean by shipper, or what
> connection you see among these events.

Sorry, this is televisionwithoutpity.com speak - short for
"relationshipper" or something similar.  It refers to fans
who want to see a set of relationships on a tv show - Buffy/Angel
shippers were opposed to Buffy/Spike shippers, for example.


> What you haven't mentioned is the theme of the book, which is what
> Howard Gardner calls "interpersonal intelligence".  Vlad's outburst
> is an example of the unplanned but successful kind, and confirms
> what Teldra told him earlier about his skill (despite Loiosh's
> being a four-legged jhereg).

Ok, "interpersonal intelligence" is good.  But if it had been handled
a little more subtly I'd be happier.



> > Verra fights like a tag,
>
> Which tops a series of seeming inconsistencies: she tells M&A that
> they're traitors or fools for bringing her where the Jenoine can
> hurt her, but then she is not without power, they still fear her,
> Vlad didn't have to interpose his shoulder, but then all she can
> do is jump on a Jenoine as if it had borrowed her best dress.

Yes.



> > T feeds V by hand, and (to some extent) T encourages V to
> > shamelessly flirt with her.
>
> Nothing wrong with that, and both fit with the theme.

She is (it seems to me) leading him on.  These conversations might have
led to Vlad thinking about dinner at Valabar's and a few bottles of wine
and a moonlight stroll and ...


> > Now, these things are not necessarily bad in
> > isolation, but in concert I feel I've been want-not-needed.
>
> However, we *needed* a joke that I remember from _The Joys of
> Yiddish_.

Woosh.


> > At the end of _Dragon_, Vlad has learned and grown and placed parts of
> > his past into context, and so has the careful reader.
>
> Same in _Issola_ (except that I didn't put any of my past into
> context).

I think Vlad is altered in _I_, as opposed to growing.  Ok, he has learned
some things - things he might have been expected to know before the novel.


> In _Issola_ I really noticed how appallingly he was acting, but I didn't
> realize how that was going to fit into the book until Lady Teldra made
> it clear in various ways and we saw how Vlad developed.  Maybe I was
> dense, but that part worked just the way I'd have liked it to.

Perhaps.  I'd say, "Let's see how he behaves in future", but there's no
more Vlad.