--- Philip Hart <philiph at slac.stanford.edu> wrote: > > > On Thu, 18 Mar 2004, Jerry Friedman wrote: > > > --- Philip Hart <philiph at slac.stanford.edu> wrote: > > > > > > Those who like SKZB may well enjoy Raymond Chandler. In fact, Vlad > > > may be an indirect descendant of Philip Marlowe, Chandler's > competent, > > > moral, sensitive, snarky man in a crime-riddled landscape. > > > > I admire your restraint in saying "maybe". I meant "may be". > We shouldn't overlook the degree to which Vlad differs from Marlowe. > Marlowe is older, sadder, more self-aware. He's a loner. He's willing > to eat awful food, though he's particular about his coffee. He has no > ambition. SKZB may know someone like Vlad (perhaps from shaving). Shaving? Vlad is an "indirect descendant", as you put it. Spenser's in there somewhere. > > > Some of the above thoughts helped crystallize some objections I have > > > to _Issola_. Let me hasten to add that I find it perhaps the most > > > enjoyable installment of the Vladiad since _Jhereg_, but perhaps > > > that's a question of want/need. > > > > I'm surprised, since I'd say _Jhereg_ also fits your criticism-- > > almost everything happens, sometimes rather implausibly, to set > > up the final "Impressing" scene. > > I don't think so - if you accept the setup, which you must since it's > the > first novel, I don't find _J_'s plot intrusive or especially improbable. Well, I still had trouble with Mellar's plan. And it seems that someone should be able to find Vlad with witchcraft or sorcery or the kind of combination he and Cawti and Daymar use to find Mellar. Make him a "homing" amulet or something. Or use the method at the end of _Orca_. One of these days I'm going to post what Vlad *really* should have done in _Jhereg_. But it might be reasonable that he missed it, considering the pressure of events. > > > Then there's the mission from the J. They give V a box to send him > to > > > visit Verra - but no way to get back. And no way to confirm he was > > > successful. > > > > They may have ways of knowing. > > I can't think of any that wouldn't lead to further plot problems. They feel a disturbance in the Force. > > > Does the trellanstone have to be discovered? Fine, it's in the one > > > room, > > > > Actually, I liked that. The Jenoine think the hominids are > > cute, so a simple concealment would work. Conceivably any method > > they use to hide it could be penetrated--the question is just what > > method is the Coolest. > > Put the damn rock in a different room. Use a concealment not subject to > Spellbreaker. Then Morrolan and Aliera track the flow of sorcerous energy starting >from the amorphia stream, or Aliera uses Pathfinder, or they wander into the storage room with Verra and she says, "Kyrancteur!" (I kind of like that last one.) Why is one of these better than another? > I think kittens are cute. I think kittens with rifles are cute - > http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2003/12/about_our_masco.html#more > for example. I don't think kittens with sea-launched ballistic missles > are cute. Sethra, M, and A are principal opponents of the J, if we can > trust S. The J can't be dumb enough not to notice that the creatures > they > find "cute" have been thwarting them for many thousands of years. ... Sethra, yes, but have Morrolan and Aliera been thwarting them at all? > > > Does Vlad need to > > > be one-armed for the finale? No problem. > > > > Does he need to be? I forget how. > > So he can draw the dagger with Spellbreaker in hand, leading to the > meld. Oh, yeah. That sort of thing doesn't bother me. > > > Then there's the set of (shipper?) events - > > > > Sorry, but I have no idea what you mean by shipper, or what > > connection you see among these events. > > Sorry, this is televisionwithoutpity.com speak - short for > "relationshipper" or something similar. It refers to fans > who want to see a set of relationships on a tv show - Buffy/Angel > shippers were opposed to Buffy/Spike shippers, for example. Thanks. I don't watch TV (well, hardly ever), but I get the idea. > > What you haven't mentioned is the theme of the book, which is what ... > > T feeds V by hand, and (to some extent) T encourages V to > > > shamelessly flirt with her. > > > > Nothing wrong with that, and both fit with the theme. > > She is (it seems to me) leading him on. These conversations might have > led to Vlad thinking about dinner at Valabar's and a few bottles of wine > and a moonlight stroll and ... Still doesn't bother me. I get the feeling they both know it's idle flirtation. > > > Now, these things are not necessarily bad in > > > isolation, but in concert I feel I've been want-not-needed. > > > > However, we *needed* a joke that I remember from _The Joys of > > Yiddish_. > > Woosh. I was hoping you'd ask. Not verbatim: A Martian lands in New York. Wandering around the Lower East Side, he sees a bakery and goes in. "What are those little wheels in the window?" The owner says, "Those aren't wheels, they're 'bagels'. We eat them. Here, try one." The Martian chews on it and says, "Man! These would go great with cream cheese and lox!" > > > At the end of _Dragon_, Vlad has learned and grown and placed parts > of > > > his past into context, and so has the careful reader. > > > > Same in _Issola_ (except that I didn't put any of my past into > > context). > > I think Vlad is altered in _I_, as opposed to growing. Ok, he has > learned > some things - things he might have been expected to know before the > novel. I think having a little more consideration for others counts as growing. > > In _Issola_ I really noticed how appallingly he was acting, but I > didn't > > realize how that was going to fit into the book until Lady Teldra made > > it clear in various ways and we saw how Vlad developed. Maybe I was > > dense, but that part worked just the way I'd have liked it to. > > Perhaps. I'd say, "Let's see how he behaves in future", but there's no > more Vlad. Steven keeps saying he likes Vlad, so I doubt Vlad will alter out of recognition. Jerry __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html