--- Philip Hart <philiph at slac.stanford.edu> wrote: > > > On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Sean Whalen wrote: > > > > > --- Philip Hart <philiph at slac.stanford.edu> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Mon, 22 Mar 2004, Sean Whalen wrote: > > > > > > > > In _The Phoenix > > Guards_ there's no scene where all the plots are > exactly described and > > all the actions explained. In fact, I'm pretty > sure that some of the > > information given is the result of editing > mistakes or changes in the > > plot from one draft to another. > > That's an interesting thesis - though I see no > evidence for it. Khaavren and Tazendra interrupt a meeting between Seodra and Gyorg Lavode. Seodra is plotting with the Warlord for the rest of the book and under questioning Khaavren says Seodra was meeting with the Warlord. This isn't just a small typo, Gyorg is described and talks with one of his guards as if he is a plotter. I think that he was originally intended to be one of the antagonists but his part was changed for some reason to Lytra e'Tenith (maybe because it made sense for her to get her line the stewardship of the Pepperfields). There are also some small typos that may confuse the issue (e'Lanya being substituted for e'Tenith and so on). > > I think my interpretation is very probable only if > there can be multiple > > Emperors per reign. If not, then Allistar just > wanted to become Noima's > > lover and use her influence for his own ends. > However, this leaves him > > vulnerable to being exposed (and his attentions > weren't exactly secret) > > and risking execution or banishment. > > We know from _FHYA_ that several courtiers ran the > same risk successfully. Really? What did they get out of it? I'm not saying they don't want to influence the Consort for their own benefit, I'm just saying they'll go further if they can. If Allistar could become Emperor (Noima doesn't have to be in line, it works better if she doesn't have a chance to ascend) after Tortaalik, there's no reason why he wouldn't take an opportunity to keep Tortaalik from arresting Kathana and extend the uncertainty of her fate, the ire of the e'Lanya line, and the lack of a Marquis of the Pepperfields. With no one to defend the Pepperfields an army of Easterners arrived. Adron just happened to be there because of Khaavren and co. and the other plotters. If Khaavren hadn't been looking for Kathana and caused an odd chain of events the Easterners would have taken the Pepperfields right then and caused a lot of problems for the Empire directly because of Tortaalik's lack of action. He might have had to step down right then. If Allistar is related to many important Phoenixes (or has allies in the Dragon) he might be able to work his way to the top, especially if supported by Noima. > > In any other story it would be almost taken for > granted that he wanted > > to marry the Queen, remove the King and take over. > A) This isn't any other story and B) it would depend > on the story. Noima > is the Consort - we don't know if that puts her in > the line of succession. > Allistar might want to father a royal child. He > might want more influence > at court through Noima's affections. He might be > planning to blackmail > Noima. Noima might be entirely uninvolved for all I > know. The only reason this seems unlikely is because some people don't believe a new Phoenix Emperor could come to power this reign. I think it could happen. Noima isn't involved in their plans. She hasn't shown any special affection for Allistar, so Illista takes advantage of Khaavren's affections to make him search for and keep Kathana safe (to please Noima, since she's Kathana's friend, and hopefully make her grateful to Allistar). Having influence with the Consort would be nice, but it wouldn't give two ambitious Phoenixes what they want during the start of a Phoenix reign where the Emperor is weak, inexperienced, and indecisive. Remember, he's been ignoring the Pepperfields and trying to mount an expedition to take Sandyhome. He's completely clueless about how to handle the crisis the last Empress stepped down so he could fix it. If any of his plans go wrong (which was prevented only by Khaavren and his friends in a very unusual series of heroic actions) he might lose enough influence for another to take his place. If all they could hope for was an affair with Noima, they would probably only go for that, but they have a chance to make Allistar Emperor, and I think they'll go for it. > > I've argued before that there can be more than one > Emperor per reign > > (and that there is only one Phoenix Reign per > cycle, almost always taken > > by a decadent Phoenix). It makes sense > Tortaalik's sister tried to kill > > him with poison to become Empress (and did it > ninety years into his > > reign), not that he would be comatose. > > So he's comatose - so what? Maybe the Orb makes an > exception in that > case. Or not - but she's really irresponsible. > Maybe the Orb can be run > by another if the Emperor is incapacitated. (etc.) OK, those are possibilities. I still don't believe them, but I can't completely disprove them. > Note that you're assuming the sister is in the line > of succession and that > there is a hard/fast rule of 17**2 years as well as > the multi-bite. Heirship seems hereditary in the Phoenix. Zerika wouldn't be Heir because she wasn't born yet, so her position is probably assumed by way of her mother. Yes, I assume that there is a minimum and maximum length of time for each reign but any number of Emperors (though usually just one in practice). > If you can find a reference to the sister as Phoenix > Heir I'll be > impressed. But wasn't Loudin the logical heir (if > she was alive?) > possibly already being the Princess? Loudin was the > Phoenix Heir just before the > Interregnum. She's never mentioned as that, but with hereditary heirship (see Loudin and Zerika) it seems very probable. Loudin became Phoenix Heir after Tortaalik's sister was banished. > Here I think > is the first fair bit of evidence for the > multi-emperor thesis. I don't > think it's very strong - one word - and perhaps just > indicative of a > ceremonial position. But it wasn't ceremonial. Zerika became Heir and then Empress, no Dragon reign started just because there had already been one Emperor. I've already written about why there probably aren't two Phoenix Reigns in each cycle. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html